I recently had the chance to have a close look at Logix and found a few features that make me thinking of choosing it over Quadlock. Ties/corner furs - besides more sturdiness during the pour I think it will make it a lot easier to install the siding at corners and corner trims. I love their their plastic reinforced EPS bucks. Reason: I want to avoid wood bucks so installing windows directly into concrete will increase thermal bridging and this will also complicate somewhat the wall finishing around the windows/doors. Dams on the top of the Logix block promise a better barrier against water infiltration. Logix has long ties which are available from QL as an option and extra $. Me thinks long ties should also make screwing siding and drywall easier. Last but not least - Logix comes assembled while QL is a KD block so it should bring in some time savings with the placing of the blocks. Both are available locally. Installer experience may be an issue but something tells me I should not worry too much about that... or should I? What are your thoughts?

Where are you at pacificstart? Have you looked at Fox? Comparing corner diagrams and photos, to my eye the Fox corner re-enforcement looks stronger with support for the concrete side forces more evenly distributed across the foam. They also have plenty of corner attach points. The fox ties are also continous top to bottom in each block so they are continous top to bottom in the wall every 8"OC. Since the ties in any given block are in contact with the ties in the block above and below it, the wall should compress very little during the pour. The blocks are also fully assembeled.

Fox does a foam buck, theirs however gives you screw in points parallel with the opening around the entire perimeter of the opening, as well as at intervals perpendicular to the opening. Not sure if the Logix buck does this.

Fox also has something called an HV clip that snaps into the crossties and attaches block very tightly end to end and vertically from row to row. I was particularly impressed with this as I had a low spot on one segment of our foundation. When we stacked the first course of block then snapped them together with the HV clips, the blocks actually pulled straight and bridged the low spot, level across the top. all I had to do was slip in a few shims to keep it from shifting left to right, before I foamed down the wall. I did an arched garage door. I was able to put the whole section up, clipped together, scribe my arc with a string to the ground, then pull it all down as one piece to cut the arch with a jigsaw. The clips are fast and easy and they really hold the blocks to gether well...

As a disclaimer, I have no hands on experience with Logix, so can say nothing about them except what I have observed thru study over the past few years. I have only ever seen Arxx and Fox in person(Fox bought out Arxx 2 years ago). I am currently building with Fox. Fox does have some interesting videos on Youtube. One that is really interesting is them pouring a temporary flood wall across the yard at one of their plants. They stacked the block to about 8', no bracing, no corner re-enforcement, just clipped together, and filled it with concrete. It looks like it came out pretty well considering their almost complete lack of what would be considered normal wall prep and pour.

As always, my .02

Good luck.

I second Fox block and their bucks, I was originally going to build with Logix, the Fox Buck tipped my decision. If you want to see my build ... http://kasshabog.blogspot.ca/

I had options locally for Fox, Nudura, and Amvic.

I am choosing Fox due to a few reasons, but mainly because I like their bucking system and I had more options for builders. Seems like Logix buck is very similar just from the pics I've seen. We haven't started our build yet, but talk to the guys in your area that use each one to get a feel for why those choose to work with that product. IMO, it's simply dumb to spend so much on building a solid wall and creating a system w/o thermal bridging to then go and use a less-than-optimal bucking system.

Thanks for all the replies.

I just attended a trade show and I was able to see all the blocks mentioned in this thread.
I believe the Logix buck is by far the best due to the comprehensive attachment options offered by the plastic inserts. This should allow the screwing of the drywall, casing, trim, etc really easy. The Fox buck doesn't have all these options.

pacificstart, can you elaborate. I'm genuinely curious about your statement.

As far as I can tell, both bucks have plastic webs to screw into. It looks like the Logix ones are on the surface whereas the Fox ones are embedded.

http://www.foxblocks.com/media/40771/Fox-Buck-Product1-4-x-4_300dpi.jpg

In that image, everywhere you see the "band" where it says either "FOX" or "BUCK" is a plastic web. Also you can see along the edge it has a web the entire way along.

Not trying to sway you, but I'm wondering if the Fox guys didn't explain their stuff properly or whatever. Still your call, just wanted to make sure you weren't misunderstanding something.

Berky is correct, There is a web every 8" along the buck perpendicular to the opening. They are marked with the words fox and buck molded into a raised band. There is also a 1 1/2" web along the entire length of each edge where you would be attaching drywall, siding or flange/fin type window frames. The difference is that the webs on the foxbuck are completely encapsulated in foam They also have a round marked area for cutting 5 1/2" holes(betweent the webs) for when the buck is placed across the bottom to allow for complete filling and proper consolidation under the opening.

One of the interesting things about the foxbuck design is the way they have molded the concrete side with passages and vents to allow the concrete to flow into and thru portions of the plastic web, anchoring the web directly to the concrete. I Was just cutting some today forming a door opening I like them...

I second third and fourth that comment. Fox buck the best, just usef them for 12' x 14' openings no problem the areas to attach return materials easily visible. Every 8". For dywall or wood returns. 2" wide plastic tie area. All around opening for window nailing fin on outside and interior trim or drywall corner bead. Dont sell fox short.

I second third and fourth that comment. Fox buck the best, just usef them for 12' x 14' openings no problem the areas to attach return materials easily visible. Every 8". For dywall or wood returns. 2" wide plastic tie area. All around opening for window nailing fin on outside and interior trim or drywall corner bead. Dont sell fox short.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this.
If you look in this video around 2:05 the guy explains how the Fox buck is built inside and it shows the web has no screwing area on top of the buck - only on the sides.

If I were to install innie windows or right in the middle of the buck - where am I supposed to put the screws if I don't have a nail flange on the window frame?

The fox buck uses their existing crosstie design molded into the buck. The part that would normally hold the two faces of a block together and supports the rebar, is what spans the width of the fox buck. It is more than an inch tall and 3/8" thick on the 8" buck and about 3/4" tall X 3/8" thick in the 6" buck. It is a pretty substantial piece of plastic... I was playing with some scraps of block, and stacked, I can stand on the crossties like a ladder... In the block, the crossties are every 8" on center vertically in the wall. They are at that same 8" spacing along the length of a buck as it is the same tie.

The Logix buck is a much better design. Fox missed the boat with it's design compared to Logix

smartwall, care to elaborate? i've not personally dealt with either one in person yet, and they seem very similar from images. i'm genuinely curious

I think some of you may be overly impressed with commercial bucks. We just build and use treated lumber bucks with cast-in-place concrete bolts such that the bucks can be replaced in future years if ever necessary. We cut and size the ICF and this treated lumber such that the exterior 2x side of the lumber is flush with the exterior ICF surface. However, we only extend the interior 2x side of the lumber to the internal interior side of the ICF surface. So the final result is an exterior 2x frame just like conventional 2x construction for ease of window installation, the treated lumber does NOT extend into the living area (which code doesn’t allow in some regions), and the completed bucks have 2.5” of EPS (i.e., the interior ICF thickness) to reduce thermal bridging. We also like to use a router to create a 1" wide x 1/2" deep channel around the center internal perimeter of the bucks such that concrete will fill this channel and further reduce outdoor air infiltration.

Smartwall...we are liking the BuildBlock very much...thanks for that recommendation a while back. We also like Nudura and TF Systems. We have not tasted Fox, Logix or Quadlock yet so can't really comment.

As a mechanical engineer, I think I have a pretty discriminating eye and I looked at several ICF blocks before I decided to use Logix. I thought the Logix blocks were superior in pretty much every way, especially the heavy-duty plastic webs and the multiple corner bracing. I also decided to go with Logix Premium, which incorporates some powdered carbon into the polystyrene pellets prior to expansion. This gives better ultraviolet protection over the standard blocks which turned out to be a good thing for me as my castle is taking longer to complete than anticipated due to having to stop work on it for 18 months. There is an ARXX dealer/G.C. who lives just 1/4 mile from me and we talked about him doing my ICF with ARXX blocks, but I found them to be very flimsy. I am doing my job myself with helpers and so far it is turning out quite well. Next week will be our final wall pour, then the roof goes on and the whole shebang get's weathered in by next fall. I don't regret the extra $$ for Logix premium blocks at all.

BTW, I wanted to add that the best screws I found for attaching things to the plastic webs in Logix are Guarddog Screws. I buy them by the tub. Also, Dewalt makes a heck of a battery impact driver. I can't believe the two I bought still work.

I'm a bit of a traditionalist I like wood bucks kd. You can always add foam to the back of the buck so what is the big deal. The Fox bucks are really geared toward external window and door attachment, Your building an energy smart house but you install the most energy intensive product {windows} on the outside of the wall. Why? If I was going to use a foam buck I would use Logix. It combines a between the foam buck with a outside the foam buck. If your going to install your windows inside the wall surface, and I hope you do, the Logix buck is a better choice. The Fox buck uses a standard web from the standard block which leaves you only the side of web to attach your windows. I spoke to a sales rep. when they introduced their buck several years ago and told them they screwed the pooch in their design. Tape to hold it in place, really, that's a trick from the 90's. Try installing tape when it's raining. Crazy.

Sailawayrb - I am indeed overly impressed with commercial bucks.

Here is why
1 Less work on building the buck out of lumber
2 No thermal bridges
3 No code compliance issues
4 No wood in the structure that can rot, etc (I love wood where it makes sense but not in the building structure).
5 No worries about replacing the wood in the long term

Plus: the Logix buck takes screws on all the three sides.

Here is a drawing on the possible attachments with the Logix buck.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6cwnkZ3GHaaRzBncGJvbUtUSm8/view?usp=sharing

After spending some time drawing this I thought of a further improvement - cut off the exterior rib of the buck at an angle and insert flashing before the pour.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6cwnkZ3GHaaOGwxVG1fMnhEbkk/view?usp=sharing

Like smartwall I generally prefer wood as well. However, why are you calling these buck designs commercial designs? I don't think they could possibly pass NFPA 285. They are less commercial than treated lumber. Regards.

Pacificstart, what purpose would the flashing serve?