Hi all. New member. Looking to build in fall of 2017. Definitely going with ICF, either blocks or vertical. I called TF today and got some info. One question I thought of after hanging up was the horizontal joint between pours could be a weak point ( insulation and moisture-not structural). I'm building a two story colonial in VT, with a full basement. The TF rep stated I would install the basement wall, pour, install main level, pour, then 2nd story. The c channel is used at the top of each pour and the concrete is finished flush. Then, the next level is stared just like starting from the footing, however the track is attached to the c channel from the previous pour. This horizontal joint would have a metal on metal connection with little insulation. I realize this is only the thickness of the metal, but seems like it could be a problem area. Given how metal performs with heat transfer, this could be a cold spot, no? Any thoughts?

predgw, sent you a private message. Bruce

Predgw, congrats on the project and I hope that it goes well. Are you building the project yourself or would you like to discuss the plans and these types of details with a professional in ICF construction? The question you pose has multiple answers depending on the exact area in question. Yes you will have a construction joint in which there is a "cold joint"; this must be above grade. Yes attaching a steel track at this point is a thermal break issue. Most ICF systems will have other ways of resolving this. I would be glad to talk offline at [email protected].

Here's a typical response that you will see here:

Wellcome to the forum. TF is not bad but have you looked at such and such ICF product? They are far better and are much closer to you. They have 77 locations in VT and they VP of operations is amazing

The first joint that you are talking about is a cold joint in the concrete itself - not desirable in the middle of wall height but perfectly OK at floor line. If in middle of wall you just need extra #5 6 ft long bars @ 12" o/c where half sticks in the original pour.
The second joint is a thermal bridge - not sure how serious this is but I would avoid it if possible - talk to TF for a workaround - maybe a temporary whaler/bracing on inside/outside....

I'm looking at doing the work myself, with experienced vertical form concrete guys that I will hire locally. Guys that have years of vertical form work. I'm a Civil Engineer in the bridge/highway field. Structurally I'm not worried about the joint ( assuming vertical bars are continuous through joint- I would prefer a shear key here though as opposed to trowel finish), it is the thermal aspect of the joint that concerns me. I'm building ICF specifically for my wife to avoid mold at all cost. That horizontal metal on metal joint makes me nervous that I could get condensation here.

just because they have installed other forming systems does not mean they will be proficient in ICF installation. I spent 16 years doing removable form work prior to ICF and the crew skills and mentality is very different.

Why are you troweling each pour flush? Stack block to first course above your floor attach point and tape the top interlocking teeth along the top edge to protect them from the concrete during the pour. Fill that last course of block to around 1/2 full, the main wall rebar extends the required length above that pour point. Since the rebar must extend past the cold joint, troweling around all that rebar would be a pain anyway. This also leaves an uneven layer mid block for the next pour to engage with, next best thing to a keyway I think...

That top course is locked in CC so after you have installed the floor framing and diaphragm, you peel off the packing tape and start stacking the next wall section. No metal in the joints, continous foam from footing to roofline thru 3 pours, and no trowling untill the last pour...

Ronmar

The system in question is a vertical ICF, not a block.

Possibly looking at guys that have worked on vertical forms for retaining walls, bridge decks,  and bridge abutments for years.  Pretty sharp guys that have lots of concrete experience that could quickly figure the vertical ICF process out.   

Sorry, missed the word vertical. It might be possible to not use their joiner strips and hold the base of the forms in place foam on foam during subsequent pours...

Ronmar

That is the first thing that popped into my head, but then I'm altering a system I know little about right off the bat. I will need to look more. I started another thread about ICF builders in VT. I have a lot of construction experience in highways and bridges and one thing that has proven true over time, find a crew that is experienced with their particular method and likes using that method and you can get great results. That said, I'm really looking for a crew that has used a specific product in this area (northern VT). Maybe there are few, not sure at this point.

I've used TF. I used a 2x6 screwed to the top of the wall to catch the next level. No c-channel used.

Smartwall

So Foam on foam, no track at all?

Thanks

That's right, You can also cut the rails 6" short. If your doing a 9' wall cut 6" off the rails. Pour 8'6" and use the extra 6" to lock in the next course with a full height rail. Do the same on the next course . Don't worry about the 6" piece, throw in the top course. Everything inter locks. Don't tell TF. It's my secret. If your in northern VT try Quad Lock from Miles Supply in Barrie

Got. Secret is safe. I have talked to the rep in Barre.

Still searching around. I don't have plans developed yet enough to get quotes, but soon. Found that we have a local company, VTICF that have been in the ICF business for looks like 20 years. I have a call into them as well. The are an AMVIC dealer.

Thanks for assistance.