Snow in my ICF walls
Last Post 09 Jan 2019 06:48 PM by joasis. 9 Replies.
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HandofgreinUser is Offline
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05 Nov 2018 02:39 PM
I was using the Smartblock ICF and attempted to pour last Thursday, had a few blowouts, and decided to stop the pour otherwise it would have been a complete disaster. I thought I had braced everything well, the outside corners and T intersections needed more bracing and would not have survived the pressure of the rest of the 10’ wall being poured. We covered the top of the forms to pour this week but it has been ridiculous windy and snowing for 6 days straight. During the wind our protection blew off on a little more than half the walls. It is like 60 mph wind everyday up there since the pour. My question is how to melt the snow and ice that is on top of my first 3’ of concrete and have a good bond between pours?
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05 Nov 2018 10:01 PM
Sounds like bad planning and execution. They do make products that helps bind concrete but you still are going to have a cold joint but I don't how much a concern that will be. Mignt want ask a structural engineer. Maybe someone who has been in your predicament will have some good recommendations. Good luck.
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05 Nov 2018 10:02 PM
Posted By Handofgrein on 05 Nov 2018 02:39 PM
I was using the Smartblock ICF and attempted to pour last Thursday, had a few blowouts, and decided to stop the pour otherwise it would have been a complete disaster. I thought I had braced everything well, the outside corners and T intersections needed more bracing and would not have survived the pressure of the rest of the 10’ wall being poured. We covered the top of the forms to pour this week but it has been ridiculous windy and snowing for 6 days straight. During the wind our protection blew off on a little more than half the walls. It is like 60 mph wind everyday up there since the pour. My question is how to melt the snow and ice that is on top of my first 3’ of concrete and have a good bond between pours?

I assume this is a DIY job? Blowouts should not happen on a professional ICF job. It can but with experience comes knowledge on how to prevent this.

The ICF is like an ice cooler. It will not melt on its own. Best way is to shop vac the snow out of the walls. It will not melt on its own unless it gets hot and sunny outside.

You definetly DO NOT want to have ice/snow or the bond for the next pour/lift will be very poor. Get the snow/ice out and then buy some liquid concrete bonder and spray that onto the top concrete layer. That will help ensure a better bond. I assume you have vertical rebar sticking out for the next course?
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06 Nov 2018 10:29 AM
Also, when you were pouring, were you trying to fill the forms evenly? Or were you filling a section and moving on?
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06 Nov 2018 11:21 AM
all of the above needs doing -snow out clean and dryish
If possible you should abrade the top of your set concrete as concrete always ends up with some sort of scum in top layer --good clean agreegate is what you want ideally to bond your next pour especially as its going to be days or weeks till next pour
and definately will need rebar for good bond and load transfer
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06 Nov 2018 02:12 PM
Is this a foundation wall or above grade? In my experience, engineers are typically not as concerned with cold joints above grade vs. below grade. You definitely need to get that snow out. If you can get some of it removed with a shop vac that is a great idea, but I would add heat to in the inside of the wall to ensure the remainder is removed. Use insulated tarp on top and cut a hole in a corner to vent a furnace into the core of the ICF (be sure not to melt EPS). Another option is having a hydro-vac truck come to site and they can use heat/steam and a vac to quickly remove the snow.

I would consult your local building official and/or an engineer to get the OK prior to continuing (if you talk to your BO first they may insist on an engineer review). They will be able to advise if any further steps are needed to reinforce the cold joint (eg, sheer walls, bonding agent, additional rebar, high strength concrete for remainder, etc).
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06 Nov 2018 04:49 PM
Yes, if this is below grade, you definitely should seek the guidance of a structural PE before proceeding. You may need to drill and epoxy in rebar at the cold joint and use higher strength concrete to provide adequate structural strength. The only thing I would suggest beyond the good advice that you have already received is to consider pouring well above freezing conditions to avoid having to use additives. Some additional knowledge, experience and planning would have gone a long way to avoid this nightmarish situation. Best wishes with this project and please keep us updated.
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JerryUser is Offline
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15 Dec 2018 01:26 AM
Hi Handofgrain,
Sorry to hear about your experience.
You have 2 immediate problems and other problems that lead you into this situation.
1. Snow is a PITA but can be dealt with. Question is how much snow are you talking about?
a. You can use shop vac, I have used it very successfully to clean falling leaves before pour. Get 10ft PVC pipe about 1.5 in and duct tape it to the vacuum hose. Anything bigger than 1.5 may be challenging to fit between ties and rebar.
b. If you have just little snow in few spots you can use hot water but make sure ambient temperature is well above freezing, use infrared thermometer to see what temp is in the wall cavity. There could be significant difference. You don't want that water to freeze, this will be worst than snow. For this reason this is least favorite option.
c. You can cover top and pump some heat into the cavity. You have to makes sure you not pushing high heat as it will melt you forms. Again you can use PVC to direct heat into problem areas.
d. Always use common sens and don't rush it. You will get better results if you go slower and steady.

As your pour problem the correct approach is to seek engineer recommendation but you also need to be satisfied with this solution after build is complete and you don't second guess yourself if more could have been done.
We don't have enough information to form proper opinion on your situation.
1. Are forms on top of the footing? Do you have vertical rebar in the footing. Do you have 2ft or more of vertical rebar still exposed?
2. Like other asked is this above grade or under grade?
3. Is this issue all around the perimeter of the house or just 1 wall/area?

Lastly before you continue with pour you need to brace your forms, I'm surprise to hear you had few blowouts. I poured 120 yards of concrete on my own house not a single blowout. I didn't brace corners too much, really at all but I brace heck out of all my openings and cuts. When pouring don't pour directly into the corner. Stay away with pump from corner couple feet and move from side to side of the corner. Let concrete flow into the corner. As you already know go in lifts 3 to 4 feet. I did use more FoxBlocks HV clips in corners from what was recommended especially on the outside of the tie. Concrete will want to push to the outside more than inside.

I always found that in critical situations is best to take step back try to remove emotions and think like engineer and what would you suggest if this was you close relative house and not yours?

Good luck and ask more questions if you need to bounce of ideas.


rvalueUser is Offline
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21 Dec 2018 10:16 PM
Been there before a couple times. No fun.
One solution is to wait for warmer weather. It will take days because the concrete already in the wall will absorb a lot of heat before it exceeds the melting point, but honestly this is the best solution.
We have had little success trying to blow heat in.
Another solution we have used is to cut a square of foam out every other tie, manually remove the snow, then replace the foam. Use a square of plywood to hold it in place during the pour.
I am going to assume you will discover a layer of ice between the snow and concrete. This is typical. Do NOT try to pour thinking the heat of the new concrete will melt the ice. It won't. In cases where we couldn't wait for warmer weather, we had the redi-mix supplier bring out extra trucks of hot water prior to the pour, and used 3/4" garden hoses to melt the ice through the aforementioned holes.
Details matter!
Jake Vierzen
R-Value Homes
Grand Rapids, MI
616.299.3654
joasisUser is Offline
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09 Jan 2019 06:48 PM
I would assume you have points that would drain water, since you say you had blowouts, etc.

You can get a hot water power washer, and with the green tip and pressure dialed down, wash the top of the poured concrete, to melt the ice and snow, and kind of clean the concrete. Then follow this up with a good blower, pushing the water to the lowest point and out. If you have to cut into the form to make an escape, place the cut piece back in the hole and plate over with a plywood scab. You will have a cold joint, but if you have vertical steel in place per prescriptive design, you will be fine. You can take the precaution when you pour again to have a truck with a "grout mix" first up, with say 5 yards, and make a quick trip around the walls and be sure you cover every place you have concrete in the walls, and then proceed with a design mix you are using.

You might swallow your pride and at least have an experienced ICF guy come and look it over when you pour again....or better still have them there to supervise.
Ladwig Construction<br>Hennessey, Oklahoma<br>405 853 1563<br>Residential and Commercial Contractor<br>ICF's and Steel
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