rszimm
 New Member
 Posts:29
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| 21 May 2019 06:27 PM |
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I've got a W14x26 steel beam bearing between two ICF walls that holds up the second floor (which is normal frame construction). Think of the ground floor as a 40'x20' rectangle and the second floor as a 20'x20' square set atop that rectangle. The beam holds up the wall that doesn't sit ontop of the ICF directly.
So, what are the options for how the beam attaches to the wall? The drafter wants to put a bearing plate in there that gets poured in place and then welded to the beam once it's set. I'm not sure that gives us any wiggle room for leveling the beam. I've heard people talk about non-shrinking grout UNDER a bearing plate to give you the leveling, but I don't know how the beam and the plate gets secured to the actual ICF wall.
What's standard practice here? |
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sailawayrb
 Veteran Member
 Posts:2283

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| 21 May 2019 06:45 PM |
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First off, I think you would want to engage an engineer to sort this out... On most ICF construction, we just use pressure treated 2x12” lumber as a top sill plate that is fastened to concrete core with poured in place L bolts or drilled/epoxied threaded rod and then foundation washers/nuts. However, you likely can’t use wood under your steel beam as the bearing load would deform it. So you need to fasten the beam directly to the concrete core or to steel plate that is fastened to concrete core. Seems like steel beam fasteners could be used in lieu of welding and steel shims could be used to achieve leveling. You will also want a gasket or way to air seal the joints. |
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newbostonconst
 Advanced Member
 Posts:778
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| 22 May 2019 11:13 AM |
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Why not set the beam in a beam pocket? That way the bearing is directly downward through the wall without any shear loading. The beam can be shimmed with steel plates that are normally supplied with beam from your local distributor. It is best to have pocket completely flat to the beam doesn't rock. Beam pockets were just talked about recently on this site if you want to search. Good luck. |
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| "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlins |
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rszimm
 New Member
 Posts:29
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| 22 May 2019 04:01 PM |
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So my understanding of beam pockets is that they require the ICF to continue up past the beam. You put a pocket in the wall and after the beam is set, you fill the pocket with grout to essentially lock the beam in. In my scenario the ICF layer stops at the top of the 1st floor and the 2nd floor is typical wood frame. So the beam sits on top of the ICF wall. |
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newbostonconst
 Advanced Member
 Posts:778
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| 23 May 2019 03:29 PM |
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So the beam is supporting the wall but not flooring? Most of the time the floor sits on the beam and the wall sits on the floor. This way everything moves together. Are you using floor trusses or something and want the beam flush from the underside? Most people that have done IFC say "If you don't do ICF to the roof it is a waste."
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| "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlins |
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rszimm
 New Member
 Posts:29
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| 24 May 2019 04:42 PM |
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The beam in 14" high. The floor I-Joists are 14" high. The joists attach to the I-Joist via an ITS hanger, powder fastened to the top of the I-Beam. That way the beam doesn't sit below the joists and we have a flat ceiling in the floor below. Ontop of the floor joists we put the floor decking. Ontop of the floor decking comes the wall sill-plate and then wall studs, etc. etc. |
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newbostonconst
 Advanced Member
 Posts:778
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| 28 May 2019 11:23 AM |
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Not sure what power fasten to top of I-beam means. Most framers put a 2x6 board on top of the I-beam and then nail the hangers to it in this instance. This would make your beam hang down 1-1/2 inches lower. Floor trusses might be the better way for you to go in what you are trying to accomplish. As far as the beam pocket subject goes it seems the floor is only loading one side of the beam. I would be afraid of the beam rolling in a geological or meteorological event. Running the wall higher on that wall where the beam is setting would be the better way to go in my view book. |
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| "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlins |
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rszimm
 New Member
 Posts:29
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| 29 May 2019 09:02 PM |
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"powder fastened" Here's a page from the Simpson book showing what I'm talking about: https://i.imgur.com/NmIM5ss.png I get the loading on only one side. I think web stiffeners are in order to keep the rollover (or torsion) from happening. |
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Titan ICF
 New Member
 Posts:61

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| 01 Jun 2019 05:22 PM |
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The best approach is a Embed plate that gets field welded once walls are poured in place. Then the welder can weld an ear on it in the exact place you want it. The beam sits on top of the ear. IT gets done all the time in commercial. Beam pockets are ok, but normally require a embed to sit on and get welded to. They can also be done without and wedge bolted in. You don't get a lot of wiggle room at that point. I prefer embeds vs pockets for installation, you install it, brace it accordingly and pour it. Then remove the screws needed to old it in place and on to the next one. The pockets require more work, before, during and after the pour. You are ok if you are low and can shim or grout it. If you are high then you have more issues. |
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