Looking for clarification on rebar/lintel engineering notes
Last Post 24 Jul 2021 02:01 PM by smartwall. 8 Replies.
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WaltersFallsUser is Offline
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21 Jul 2021 11:30 PM
Hello all, I'm working on an 800 sq/ft addition to my home and I received this drawings from my engineer. Long story short I'm away at work and don't have a quick line of communication with the engineers. So I'm hoping someone here can help clarify the engineers notes. This wall is 33' long and made of 6" block, engineered for Amvic but we're switching to Nudura(which I don't believe will be an issue). I've attached the drawings with the notes, but here they are as well, with my questions for quick reference. "Provide 1-10M Each Side w/10M Stirrups @ 16" cts Full Height of First Storey" Would this be horizontal rebar spaced vertically at 16" centers, and the stirrups spaced typically?( I believe 6" spacing for 6" block is typical for nudura) "Provide 1-15M Each Side w/10M Stirrups @ 16" cts Full Height of First Storey" Same question "Provide 2-10M Vertical Bars w/10M Stirrups @ 16" cts" This is the note that's really thrown me off. This is a narrow pillar 14" wide, what would the spacing of the vertical rebar be? Are these stirrups then horizontal, spaced typically? Or Are the stirrups spaced 16" apart? This has got me all turned around. Another question I have for you ICF experts is on the lintel note my engineers have drawn up "16" Deep, r/w 1-15M Bottom Bar and 1-10M Top Bar w/ 10M Stirrups at 8" cts." These lintels run across two windows and a door that are just slightly over the spacing that nudura requires for the lintel to be continuous, so my question is this, can the lintel just be continuous? And does it make sense to do so? Grateful for any and all advice or clarification. I've sent these questions off to the engineers as well but they've historically not been quick to respond. So I figured I'd throw these questions out to the internet. Sorry for the poor quality of the drawings as well. I had to compress the sh*t out of them to upload. Thanks kindly,

Attachment: Ren1_compressed.pdf
Attachment: Ren2_compressed.pdf

newbostonconstUser is Offline
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22 Jul 2021 02:25 PM
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/reinforcing-bar-us-imperial-d_1483.html

10M is 10 mm diameter rebar OD is actually 11.3, 1/2 inch is bigger but would work if that is what you can get.

So, "Provide 1-10M Each Side w/10M Stirrups @ 16" cts Full Height of First Storey", I read that as one(should be like 4 for the pillar) 10mm bar with stirrups made of 10mm bar. Stirrups are every 16 inches apart going up. You need a code book to figure out spacing because rebar can't be any closer to the outside of the crencrete then a inch and a half if I remember right.

https://www.nudura.com/media/4133/appendix_e_usa.pdf

"16" Deep, r/w 1-15M Bottom Bar and 1-10M Top Bar w/ 10M Stirrups at 8" cts." I read it as two pieces of bar 16 inches apart with stirrups holding them in place every 8 inches. And yes just make a long one the goes over both windows and the door. If it is longer then the rebar then you will have to over lap some to exstend. You can look at what to overlap them, I think it is around 16 inches, maybe 12 but if you go 2 feet that is more then enough and you will be good.





"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlins
WaltersFallsUser is Offline
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23 Jul 2021 01:48 AM
Thanks for the response Newbostonconst, I'm still not making sense of this detail though. So with the "Provide 1-10M Each Side w/10M Stirrups @ 16" cts Full Height of First Storey" the 1-10M each side designates vertical rebar?

The two sections with these notes are 2' 3.5" and 2' 1.5" wide, 9' tall. So to use the 2' 3.5" section as an example; I would install 2 9' lengths of 10M vertically with 10M stirrups installed horizontally at 16" spacing? You're correct with an 1.5" spacing from the edge of the concrete. So, with these pillars being at the corners, I would place both vertical rebars 1.5 or 2" in from the corner and from the window?

Thanks again,



newbostonconstUser is Offline
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23 Jul 2021 11:18 AM
Are the columns rectangular or square?

If they are square I would do something like in this link
https://www.dreamstime.com/rebar-steel-pillar-pole-process-house-building-construction-reinforced-concrete-foundation-beam-image136434990

If they are rectangular you might be able to just have the 2 vertical pieces of rebar with stirrups.

For lintels, the rebar with stirrups goes horizontal, but for columns it goes vertical. The construction is nearly the same.


"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlins
smartwallUser is Offline
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23 Jul 2021 01:42 PM
New Boston is correct. Making the lintels longer is a good thing. Too many people make them for each opening without regard to tying the whole wall together.. As far as the stirrups, I wouldn't sweat the spacing. Their there to keep the separation of the main rebar in place. Too many stirrups and your going to have a nightmare during your pour. Pouring columns has to be done with care. All the rebar in the world won't make up for voids in the concrete.. We usually pour them first and we use a mid range water reducer to increase the flow. Vibration is a must. Pour rate when you pump is critical.


WaltersFallsUser is Offline
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24 Jul 2021 04:39 AM
Ok, Thanks guys.

The columns are rectangular. I think I've got my head wrapped around these notes for the most part now.

I think as far as the Lintel goes, building it with a continuous horizontal bar spanning across the two windows and door makes the most sense. When I got into reading Nudura's manuals I found stipulations for lap joints with rebar that would make a mess of my lintels if they were built individually, wherein if I just make the whole lintel one, I'd avoid that headache.

Another question that I've been pondering is if I'm still required to adhere to typical vertical and horizontal rebar placement with this wall, which is 10M @ 24" and 10M @ 36" respectively? Or would having all these " engineered " rebar be enough? Unfortunately I think most of my questions could be quickly and easily answered if I had a direct line of communication to the engineer, but hopefully with me posting this here the information can help someone else out in a similar predicament.

Thanks again for the input guys


WaltersFallsUser is Offline
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24 Jul 2021 04:39 AM
Ok, Thanks guys.

The columns are rectangular. I think I've got my head wrapped around these notes for the most part now.

I think as far as the Lintel goes, building it with a continuous horizontal bar spanning across the two windows and door makes the most sense. When I got into reading Nudura's manuals I found stipulations for lap joints with rebar that would make a mess of my lintels if they were built individually, wherein if I just make the whole lintel one, I'd avoid that headache.

Another question that I've been pondering is if I'm still required to adhere to typical vertical and horizontal rebar placement with this wall, which is 10M @ 24" and 10M @ 36" respectively? Or would having all these " engineered " rebar be enough? Unfortunately I think most of my questions could be quickly and easily answered if I had a direct line of communication to the engineer, but hopefully with me posting this here the information can help someone else out in a similar predicament.

Thanks again for the input guys


WaltersFallsUser is Offline
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24 Jul 2021 04:39 AM
Ok, Thanks guys.

The columns are rectangular. I think I've got my head wrapped around these notes for the most part now.

I think as far as the Lintel goes, building it with a continuous horizontal bar spanning across the two windows and door makes the most sense. When I got into reading Nudura's manuals I found stipulations for lap joints with rebar that would make a mess of my lintels if they were built individually, wherein if I just make the whole lintel one, I'd avoid that headache.

Another question that I've been pondering is if I'm still required to adhere to typical vertical and horizontal rebar placement with this wall, which is 10M @ 24" and 10M @ 36" respectively? Or would having all these " engineered " rebar be enough? Unfortunately I think most of my questions could be quickly and easily answered if I had a direct line of communication to the engineer, but hopefully with me posting this here the information can help someone else out in a similar predicament.

Thanks again for the input guys


smartwallUser is Offline
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24 Jul 2021 02:01 PM
You still want the horizontal and vertical rebar in the wall as per spec. You have the Nudura specs, just follow them. The horizontal is less important than the verts. almost like studs in a stick build. Don't forget the rebar on the side and bottom of the window.. I'm kind of old school and I always install 2ft pcs. of rebar in the corners of my windows at a 45 degree angle in order to pick up cracks. The old saying is it's not if concrete will crack but where. One thing that will help you with your pour is to place your rebar on the inside fingers closest to the interior wall. That's the tension side and it gives you the best chance for a good pour. Too many put the rebar in the center fingers which can lead to segregation of the mix.


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