We're currently having a home built in northwestern Montana.  We were under the impression the panels would all fit together perfectly, but our builder has found the dimensions to be off, requiring him to trim them.  The SIPS company was given very specific dimensions...nonetheless, this small (!) problem.  Our builder was discussing this with another  builder who said he was lucky the panels were only off half an inch or so....that another SIPS company in the area was notorious for being off even farther.

Has anyone else experienced this?  It has slowed our construction considerably.  This IS our builder's first SIPS project and overall he is impressed...but not with the company's ability to provide panels of the proper dimensions.
--Jan Manning

We are also anticipating building with SIPS and I agree that, while with no real practical experience, that the cut and fit of SIPS is critical to the success of the project. How bad were your panels? Was there an error range that was specified (ie, +/- 1", etc.). I am drafting our house with TurboCAD so the dimensions will be exact. The ultimate question is whether the SIPS supplier can turn these figures into reality. Good luck with your project.

The panels are off about 1/2 inch.  Our builder had to buy a special tool for trimming them.  The company had also promised to have someone on site when the panels started going up, but no one ever showed, and our poor builder was on his own (with his crew) to figure it out.  As far as we know, there was nothing in the company specs about allowing for variance in size.  That was kind of the whole idea with the SIPS to begin with...that the dimensions would be right-on and things would be square and tight.

We had professional architectural drawings done, and the architect was in direct communication with the panel company, so we can't see any reason for them to be half an inch off on anything.  What we thought we would save in labor by going SIPS is now being nibbled away.

We're still excited about SIPS, but I'm sure that by the time the whole project is done, we will know the questions we should have asked.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.  Would it be fair to ask that you mention who was the SIP supplier?

R-Control.  We had also dealt with Premier in the past, which was the company that the other builder said was typically farther off than R-Control.

Ironically, my husband built a small pumphouse a couple years ago, as sort of an experiment, out of SIPS panels from Premier in Tacoma.  It went together like a charm.  We felt it was a toss-up between the two companies, but went with R-Control for the house because of some connections with friends, and because the company was closer to our building site.  And we'd heard rumors that Premier was having solvency problems. 

Ok, can you explain a bit? Was the length of an entire wall off by a 1/2" or is each panel to wide/narrow(ie. 4' panels were 4'1/2" or 3'11-1/2")?

The individual panels were off...too wide, and not uniformly so. 

Here at Global Building Solutions our tolerance for finished panels is that they be square to within 1/8". Any panel not meeting these tolerances is not shipped.

We have had an issue like this in the past and it was because of the OSB coming from the factory 1/8" to 3/16" to wide. This is something that is sometimes takin for granted and it is something that every sip builder should look out for.

We built a timberframe home in Minnesota in late 2006.  I was the general contractor.  We used Thermocore for the SIPS and about 45% of the panels did not fit right.  I had to hire the crane to install them and since they did not fit well they had to be modified by the installer which added extra crane time that I had to pay  for.   I sent Thermocore pictures of all the problems and asked them to reimburse me for the crane time and they refused.  I would not recommend Thermocore.   Definitely use polyurethane.  Better R value per inch.
Anyone else had a bad experience with Thermocore

George

Yup.

That is why its important to hire a company with experience and knowledge!  Nothing is free in construction!  You made the critical mistake of not having your shop drawings signed (maybe?) and having your supplier be responsible for the 'approved' shop drawings.  That way if there are any mistakes, the supplier, not your builder nor you are responsible.  Ufnortunately, a lot of people who build with SIPs don't have the proper background to undertake such a task.  And, the SIP companies are famous for taking advantage of your inexperience.  Hopefully you kept track of the additional time or, at the very least your supplier will give you some credit - but don't count on it!   It's Buyer Beware in the Construction Business.

Hiring a professional SIP company doesn't cost money, it SAVES money.

GFR
Shell Building Systems

 

I'm rather surprised that a company like Thermocore would be so... off.

When I was researching and interviewing various companies, I visited Thermocore for info and a quote. They are no garage shop SIP outfit. Their urethane-injected core and its more complex fixtures/press... not to mention the hooking joint fastening system... lead me to believe they AT LEAST spent a lot of time thinking out their business in a serious manner. Given that, you'd think something like tolerances would be comprehended and controlled. They were one of the few that had a traveling crew, so I'm surprised you didn't take on that cost (i.e. experience IS necessary with SIPs... maybe not for a pumphouse, but definitely a real house).

Shame. SIPs are having a hard time advancing their product it seems and that is weird given this age where "silly" little things like global resource issues and energy conservation is so much more pronounced.

I've always wondered what the issues are with tolerances. I mean... how difficult could it be? There is only (2) variables, right? OSB sheet panel tolerances and fixture/press control tolerances. How hard is it to choose a lumber supplier (and maybe brand of OSB product) capable of controlling the panel tolerances (which I thought were in the 1/8" level)? And how hard is it to design a fixture to maintain squareness during drying of the adhesive?

Anyone of you fabricator/distributors/erectors care to elaborate?

I general contracted and built my house in Michigan. I used PorterSIPS out of Holland, MI. All of my panels (and holes cut for windows) were pretty spot on. The biggest issue I had were some of the headers over the larger window openings caused my 2x6 to 'buck up' an 1/8" at that point. After some "shaving" we were able to appropriately place the top plate for the second level. I had several panels that I needed to "alter", however, this was due to my negligence in not making sure the foundation and floor trusses were to spec. The panels went together fairly well and I was pretty impressed with how the roof panels fit (Hip roof design with a small gable on the ends). Their engineering department was easy to work with and the drawings they provided were easy to read. Knowing what I know now, I could easily lead a group of people with a modicum of building experience to put together a SIP home. Keep in mind I am no builder/carpenter.
Whether or not SIPS are the "way to go" is another debate but it was not too difficult to pull off. I am surprised that so many tradional builders with experience have such a hard time.
My two cents.

I was worried after reading this thread, but my panels arrived yesterday afternoon, and are all installed. The fit was spot on. No core thickness variations. I hope that my experience is a reflection of where the sip industry is heading. 



Thanks!
Kevin
 

Kevin,

 

Thanks for sharing your positive experience. Who was your SIP manufacturer?

 

Greg

Tha panels are from Thermocore of Indiana. Patrick Did a great job of keeping us updated on the progress, and the delivery of the panels.

Sorry to hear about your panels. I personaly use R-control and have never had an issue that was quality control related. Human error or oversite, Yes, Quality no.

Hope you got your problem resolved.

Grott

We used Enercept for our SIPS home. One wall was off by 1/2" in 98' of wall length.

Took 1 day it raise walls and 1 day to install roof.

I would recomend enercept to anyone considering SIPS.

They are very helpful when transfer a "stick-built" blue print to SIPS built. I called their designers several times and they were extreamly helpfull and polite. Great at answering any and all questions and concerns that I had.

Pannels arrived "on-time" and in great shape. Only complaint was the way they were loaded on the truck. Took us almost 1 full day to unload the truck and orginize the pannels for placement.

Still only took "3" days fron start to finish with a "custom" designed 1900 sq.ft (living area) home. Total 4389 sq ft under roof.

Wish the interior could have gone as fast. :-)

Lee

Sorry to hear about your panels Jan.

We have to remember that the manufacturer's top priority is pushing product out the door. This is how they exist. Just because you may provide a set of architectural drawings to a manufacturer, doesnt nesessarily mean that the application is practical. (especially if the plans were orignally drawn for stick framing)

Having a noob contractor unfamilar with SIP process & drawing review may have been strike 1.

If you plan to build another or know someone who will, get a good team together. Have your builder know the SIP drawings by memory. This way you can provide the drawings to the manufacturer with confidence.
If any mistakes occur regarding fabrication that differ from your drawings, typically any SIP manufacturer will be glad to assist.

To Kevin-
Nice Pic & Nice work. In comparison to Jan's project however, I imagine it was a piece of cake. Looks like standard 8' walls on a p.t. plate over slab with truss roof?

From what Jan has described, sounds like gables, valleys, etc...

Note:
Plan for the worst and expect the best.

For others that love the pics, here are a couple of a residence we did last year in CA.