Hello,

I was told that no glue was ever proved to last more than 50 years... Do you think osb sips would eventually delaminate?

thanks

Alexis

I doubt anyone on this site has the courage to address your question.

What do you think that says about the answer to your legitimate concern??

Plywood has been made for thousands of years; the earliest known occurrence of plywood was in Ancient Egypt around 3500 BC when wooden articles were made from sawn veneers glued together crosswise. This was originally done due to a shortage of fine wood. Thin sheets of high quality wood were glued over a substrate of lower quality wood for cosmetic effect, with incidental structural benefits. This manner of inventing plywood has occurred repeatedly throughout history. Most high quality English furniture makers working in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries (and since) have used veneering as a technique. In addition to making the most out of the highest quality materials available, it reduces prices

This is a good question, and I must admit I do not know the answer; however, there are are few relevant facts that I can share regarding this issue. Most manufactures offer a 20 year debonding warranty, a few offer a 30 year debonding warranty and some offer an upgrade to their warranty for an additional fee.

Many historians credit the architect/engineer Frank Loyd Wright and one of his students Alden B. Dow as being the father of the modern SIP panel. The first single family home that was built from SIPs by Dr. Wright and student was located in Baltimore Md. and was built in 1932. About two years ago this structure was relocated to a museum and the panels, then some 73 years old. I do not know if the panel skins were plywood or OSB; however, I suspect they were plywood.

So, I still do not know how long OSB SIPs will last with out debonding; however, based upon the evidence taken from the Wright house, it is more than 73 years. A few interesting facts I have found in relation to this is that most production built houses have a life expectancy of about 40 years. One last thought I would conclude with is that the adhesives used in most SIP panels are the same types as used in other engineered wood products; therefore, if one is concerned about adhesive debonding they may want to considerer all engineered wood products, not just SIPs!

If you have other questions about SIP debonding please feel free to contact me off list at my contact information found below.

Best of luck,

Matt

Matt B. Phelps, P.E., R.S.
SIP Engineering and Testing, LLC
201 CR 138
Hutto, Texas 78634
512/670-9400
[email protected]

First of all, nothing lasts forever. And, if you were to take two identical products, properly maintain one, and not maintain the other, or improperly protect it, the lifespan of the improperly protected product will fail much, much sooner than the properly maintained product. That said, some SIP manufacturers claim their product will last 150 years to 300 years. Green Tag Inspection Services independently claim at: http://www.fortworthinspector.com/Life_expectancy.html that:

“Framing and Other Structural Systems
Poured-concrete systems, timber frame houses and structural insulated panels will all last a lifetime, as will wall panels and roof and floor trusses. Softwood, hardboard and plywood average 30 years, while OSB and particleboard last twice as long.”

With SIP panel homes having been around for over 50 years, with no delaminating failures or OSB failures (other than the Alaskan debacle, which was the result of improper assembly techniques), SIP homes and buildings have had an excellent track record. The biggest problem I’ve found with SIP’s is improper ventilation leading to moisture problems, which is easily remedied with a whole house ventilation system. In a properly assembled, properly maintained SIP home, delaminating or degradation of the panels, in my opinion, is not a viable concern.

Steve
GrandCountySIPs.com

Why do say things like this, even before one person replies. What is your agenda?

Maybe he's got an axe to grind   [insert rim-shot here]   :)

Rim shot: he needs an 'eye-rectomy. This is an operation that cuts the nerve between his eye and his rectum, in order to get rid of his sh*tty outlook on life!

Thanks TerrJ and ICF Const for keeping this "front and Center"
It helps with my "agenda" which is simply to ask the hard questions and make people look up answers for themselves.
If you have nothing substantive about the question at hand, TerryJ, it tells everyone a lot that you resort to sophomoric personal attacks.
Please continue as it keeps the issue at the top of the list.

the original question was "I was told glue doesn't last more than 50 years"
It amazes me that the credible source for this statement is: I was told or
 they say or
everyone says,

It would be great for the original poster to give the reference for the statement so we know who told him this crap

I just stumbled across this site, and the question has bothered me for some time. In my 58 years, much of which has been involved with ,arketing nd business development, anytime a product has obvious information missing, you better hang onto your wallet. The lack of life span info on SIPs is very concerning.

We shold know the estimated lifespan of the foam(s), we should know by this time the potential QA issues and how to avoid problems. So, somebody with some technical knowledge of these products needs to explain to me what the big secret is all about.

I'd like to design with SIPs, if only I could trust them.

Masonry lasts hundreds of years, wood frame when maintained can last 200 or more years. Many new houses last much less, but that because of the way they are designed and constructed, not the materials themselves. That's why I always bought old homes. If I, or anyone else, can't get this kind of basic info, we would be betting our life savings on a "pig-in-a-poke". An if you've ever owned a Toll Bro's house, you know why you don't want to take chances on a house.

So, who has an answer to the great lifespan question?

The answer lies partly in the avoidance of the issue by those who come to these sites to look for work and partly in the fact that most just attack the person asking questions that they feel will jepardize their ability to "wow" some uninformed newcomer who might hire them to build a crackerbox house.

Your comments such as "crackerbox house" clearly reflect your bias as does your misunderstanding about what we do here.

Thanks for making my point better than I ever could. If you would like to get into a pissing match about what I do or do not know I will send you a consultation agreement.

Don H., this issue has been a subject of discussion in numerous threads on this forum, and one can only judge for himself the credibility of the various participants.

Note that the instigator of this thread used an "I was told.............................................." as a means to kick off this "discussion". Then note the negativity of the next comment by a regular participant to these forums who has never offered any positive input whatsoever. Also, see that this same party was the first to respond to your questions, after the thread was dormant for over 4 months, with another equally negative comment.

In my opinion the best response to this issue was posted by Matt Phelps at 4:34 PM on 3/24/09 and I thought that Trigm1 did a pretty good job in his post at 5:56Pm on that same day. There were also some other sincere attempts to respond to the original poster. One can also obtain a substantial amount of information from the U.S. Dept of Energy website, particularly from the data as obtained through extensive testing by ORNL (Oak Ridge National Laboratory)

My last comment on this subject, for now, is that, in my estimation, a properly constructed concrete building will likely outlast a properly constructed SIP building, given a similiar set of environmental conditions. However, in our primary market area, California, it is substantially more expensive to build with concrete (ICFs) than with SIPs, so budget can often be a factor
in connection with this decision.

Well said Sipper.