Comments requested for SIP's and moisture intrusion
Last Post 05 Dec 2011 12:20 PM by CTP. 8 Replies.
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Scott101User is Offline
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14 Nov 2011 05:33 PM
<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> <!--[if gte mso 10]> Tennessee, a fairly wet area.  Although I am sold on SIP’s, I still have some uneasiness regarding moisture causing the OSB to rot.  My plan was to have all walls and roof panels constructed from SIP’s (8/12 pitch).  The walls would use 6” SIP’s and the roof 8” SIP’s.  The exterior walls will be finished with a brick veneer with a minimum 1”air gap between the SIP’s and brick with top vents and weep holes.  The interior seams of all sips will be taped.  An HRV is also mandatory in the desighn.

 

Regarding the walls, I had been contemplating applying a self adhesive membrane such as Ice and Water Shield to the exterior of the walls, commencing from the poured concrete basement walls to the eves.  

 

Regarding the roof, as with the exterior walls, I had been thinking of using a self adhesive membrane such as Ice and Water Shield to the exterior of the SIP’s.  Over the barrier, I was planning on installing 2 x 2 or 2 x 4 battens running with the roof pitch and installing 5/8” plywood over the battens, 30# felt and Ice and Water Shield over the eves and valleys and applying a good quality shingle over the top.

 

Al alternative would be to install to the battens as above and install a metal granulated shingle roof such as Gerard instead of the plywood and shingles as proposed above.   Any thoughts on these designs?

Scott101User is Offline
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14 Nov 2011 05:35 PM
We are planning to build a single family residence in eastern Tennessee, a fairly wet area.  Although I am sold on SIP’s, I still have some uneasiness regarding moisture causing the OSB to rot.  My plan was to have all walls and roof panels constructed from SIP’s (8/12 pitch).  The walls would use 6” SIP’s and the roof 8” SIP’s.  The exterior walls will be finished with a brick veneer with a minimum 1”air gap between the SIP’s and brick with top vents and weep holes.  The interior seams of all sips will be taped.  An HRV is also mandatory in the desighn.

Regarding the walls, I had been contemplating applying a self adhesive membrane such as Ice and Water Shield to the exterior of the walls, commencing from the poured concrete basement walls to the eves.  

Regarding the roof, as with the exterior walls, I had been thinking of using a self adhesive membrane such as Ice and Water Shield to the exterior of the SIP’s.  Over the barrier, I was planning on installing 2 x 2 or 2 x 4 battens running with the roof pitch and installing 5/8” plywood over the battens, 30# felt and Ice and Water Shield over the eves and valleys and applying a good quality shingle over the top.

An alternative would be to install to the battens as above and install a metal granulated shingle roof such as Gerard instead of the plywood and shingles as proposed above.   Any thoughts on these designs?



Dana1User is Offline
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15 Nov 2011 12:28 PM
Ice & Water shield is very impermeable to water vapor, and by putting it on the exterior any moisture that finds it's way to the outer OSB skin is forced to dry thorugh the EPS and interior finish wall. While putting it on the exterior limits the peak drives from sun-on-rain-wetted brick from reaching the OSB, it also prevents the OSB from drying into the cavity. A better approach would be to use 1/4" fan-fold XPS siding-underlayment as the exterior vapor retarder (usually comes with 0.6 -0.8 perm facers), and be sure to build-in both top and bottom venting to the brick veneer to allow convective drying of the cavity. (Plenty of weep holes at the bottom course, and open at the top under the soffits.) The XPS also adds about R1 to the stackup, but that's the least of it- the ability of the OSB to dry into the cavity is everything, since drying through 6" of EPS will be less than 0.5 perms, and you'd be close to trapping the moisture there with an Ice & Water Shield solution.

It's an expense, but adding a vented nailer-deck above the outer skin of the OSB provides a HUGE improvement in the long-term prospects of the outer OSB skin. (By "battens" I'm assuming you mean purlins &/or furring?) Making the furring/purlins discontinuous blocks to allow full cross-ventilation makes it even better. Be sure to screen the soffit openings to keep the cavities from becoming a critter-condo and adding a ridge vent to enhance convective drying helps a lot.

For further discussion of this topic see: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/qa-spotlight/how-make-sip-roof-better#comment-35077
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15 Nov 2011 02:19 PM
As Dana points out, Ice & Water Shield is too vapor impermeable and not a good choice for covering the outer skin of OSB SIPS. I would use #30 asphalt felt as a water barrier over the OSB. Read more about it here:

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/node/%2019255


JellyUser is Offline
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15 Nov 2011 02:22 PM
Using steel SIPs would eliminate your concerns about rotting OSB.
CTPUser is Offline
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17 Nov 2011 11:33 AM
Scott,
Where in E. TN are you going to build? Are you looking at EPS panels or PU panels? Please feel free to e-mail me at [email protected].
Craig
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30 Nov 2011 07:46 PM
<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> <!--[if gte mso 10]> Craig, we are looking to build in the Crossville area.  However, it’s going to be a while though.  We have the land, but will not be able to retire for a few years. 

 

Regarding my question regarding the design and my concerns over moisture on the SIP skins when I first posted, I see the problem with a non-permeable barrier installed over the walls and roof.  I believe that the Alaska article directed me to another article on liquid applied WRB’s.  I have done some additional reading on this material and wondered is anyone had any thoughts on the use of one of these products to protect the exterior of the SIP’s?  Based on what I read, these barriers have fairly high permeability, allowing the OSB to dry to the exterior while still providing the tightness needed for the structure.  These products can also be applied to both OSB and concrete, so I could apply it all of the way down to the brick ledge in the foundation wall.  Thanks for any comments regarding the use and performance of these products.

Dana1User is Offline
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01 Dec 2011 03:33 PM
As long as it's above 0.5 perms after installation it won't be much of a moisture trap, but over 1 perm would be better, but behind a brick veneer it should be under 2 perms. With SIPs the weak points from a moisture point of view tend to be the seams, where air-transported water can accumulate in the OSB when the skin is below the dew point of the infiltrating/exfiltrating air.

Using a back-vented cladding scheme helps a lot too- venting the 1" cavity between the brick & weather-barrier both bottom & top purges moisture from the cavity. Brick soaks up a lot of dew & rain, and releases a lot of moisture in intense bursts when the sun hits it, but that same sunny-heat that drives the vapor pressure ballistic will also drive convection currents through the cavity- it's a self regulating system, however crude.
CTPUser is Offline
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05 Dec 2011 12:20 PM
Scott,
I am familiar with the Crossville area as I live in Asheville, NC. Although I am not a moisture intrusion expert, Eco-Panels (2.5lb cu ft density polyurethane foam) can use the ZIP system sheathing as the exterior skin in lieu of OSB. When the panels are put in place, Eco-Panels can be cam-locked together and of course use low expansion foam to seal the joints. Then the ZIP tape is used over those joints. Any moisture transfer to the top/outside side of the roof panels would then be protected by the ZIP coating/laminate. This may be a good option for you to investigate further.
Craig
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