My first introduction to SIPs was early 70's from a DIY book. The structures shown in the book were post and beam (timber frame) using SIPs made DIY. That old interest is coming back to life. Now I see the International Residential Code 2012 has a lot more SIPs detail than previously. I did not pay the $85 for a paperback copy of I.R.C.2012, but I probably will in the near future. The cost of SIPs is a major drawback for me, especially since cost ramps with designs that are more than a simple box. If I.R.C. now includes SIPs, would making my own complicate the whole permit and inspection process? I know I can get some used polyiso insulation. I don't know if I would choose OSB, maybe a stronger plywood. I would line the interior side of the completed panels with a painted drywall and the out side with a fiber cement panel. I also do not know the impact of the economy and labor market on the cost of the manufactured panels. At least the manufactured panels have well engineered splines and cams. Plus the design can be computerized to match drawings. I just don't know if I can afford them until I finish a design and get bids. A couple of complications are that the factory is a long distance from my property, and I would need a crane to unload the truck as well as to erect the structure. Is this worth it?

Posted By Gary Olsen on 09 Sep 2012 10:57 AM
My first introduction to SIPs was early 70's from a DIY book. The structures shown in the book were post and beam (timber frame) using SIPs made DIY. That old interest is coming back to life. Now I see the International Residential Code 2012 has a lot more SIPs detail than previously. I did not pay the $85 for a paperback copy of I.R.C.2012, but I probably will in the near future. The cost of SIPs is a major drawback for me, especially since cost ramps with designs that are more than a simple box. If I.R.C. now includes SIPs, would making my own complicate the whole permit and inspection process? I know I can get some used polyiso insulation. I don't know if I would choose OSB, maybe a stronger plywood. I would line the interior side of the completed panels with a painted drywall and the out side with a fiber cement panel. I also do not know the impact of the economy and labor market on the cost of the manufactured panels. At least the manufactured panels have well engineered splines and cams. Plus the design can be computerized to match drawings. I just don't know if I can afford them until I finish a design and get bids. A couple of complications are that the factory is a long distance from my property, and I would need a crane to unload the truck as well as to erect the structure. Is this worth it?

One cannot achieve the same type of SIP in terms of strength and quality if they "DIY" versus a plant manufactured & engineered SIP. I wouldn't even try it because you can't replicate the glues/adhesives and fabrication process of a factory engineered SIP by DIY in the field.

So IMHO a DIY SIP is a BIG NO NO!

Gary, If you would like some information regarding sips you can e-mail me at [email protected] I would be more than happy to help you. Also if you would like a bid all i need are your outside demensions with ceiling hieghts and roof pitch. As well as the location of site. Check out Thermocore of Missouri SIPS!

You might be better off with DIY SCIPs. When used as infill for post and beam, I suspect that a simple piece of foam would be enough - no steel needed, just apply fiber cement to the outside and some type of plaster to the inside. OK, maybe a little steel mesh on the joints.

Posted By jonr on 10 Sep 2012 05:47 PM
You might be better off with DIY SCIPs. When used as infill for post and beam, I suspect that a simple piece of foam would be enough - no steel needed, just apply fiber cement to the outside and some type of plaster to the inside. OK, maybe a little steel mesh on the joints.

Are you talking about Shotcrete SCIPs?

Concrete on the outside, plaster on the inside. There are a variety of ways to apply it.

Posted By jonr on 10 Sep 2012 09:53 PM
Concrete on the outside, plaster on the inside. There are a variety of ways to apply it.

I wasn't aware that it could be hand applied. I was under the impression that one needed specialty equipment and training.

Thanks for the replies.

Jonr - Thanks. "Infill on a post and beam" improved my memory of the book. That may be the "trick" to appease the zoning board. Plus it has some other advantages that come to mind. One would be that it would be easier to modify for a future addition or improvement.

Regarding SIP surface covers. I have had a long time hobby in thin shell cement and ferro-cement. I have the equipment, mixer, compressor and sprayer to apply plaster or cement to any shape or surface. This is not shotcrete. An elder university professor, George Nez, showed me how to make a 400 sq ft roof of 1/4" thick cement without rafters. We made it without electricity. It is on display at the university on top of a strawbale structure.

Some of the problems I see with cement (thin shell, ferro, ICFs...) on my property are the 1 hour drive for the cement truck, the formwork, the short initial setup time, and the zoning board. These would require a crew on a remote mountain for some time. Another problem is the fire risk. None of my experiments with cement would withstand a fire. Fibercrete panels have a 4hr fire rating. So does autoclaved aerated concrete. Fireproofing is another requirement.

Now, considering issues with SIPs: using factory panels does require an extremely flat foundation edge. They do not rely on a timber frame for support, so the adhesives, splines, and cams are all proprietary and not in the DIY realm. SIP flooring panels would still be of interest and I will ask the zoning board as I get ready to apply for the permit.

If the timber frame is OK, the zoning board's concern becomes how the panels are fastened to the frame. The timber frame could be supported on cement tubes that I mix my own cement rather than paying for a cement truck and crew.

Thanks again.
Gary

I've seen SCIPs coated by hand and with small air compressor driven mortar sprayers. More labor intensive, but seems to work fine. No trucks needed, especially when you are talking about a thin coating on a non structural panel. A concrete coated SIP and SCIP seem like the same thing to me except that the SIP has joints to deal with.

Gary; DIY SIPs are a bad idea, when things go awry you have no recourse, you can't sue yourself?

Gary,

DIY Sips are a viable alternative and companies like IADDIC Shelters are offering DIY products for applications like yours. The mainstay SIP manufactures will of course tell you that you should not attempt to do SIPs on your own but SIP's are no more complicated than other construction processes. Further, great flexibility arises from making panels in the geometry and configuration you need. There is a growing demand for DIY SIPS from homeowners who want to build green affordable housing. A little ingenuity, hard work, and commitment means you get what you want and not what others manufacture.

Best regards,

Rich
http://sippanel.iaddicshelters.com/

Posted By IADDIC on 18 Feb 2013 08:32 AM
Gary,

DIY Sips are a viable alternative and companies like IADDIC Shelters are offering DIY products for applications like yours. The mainstay SIP manufactures will of course tell you that you should not attempt to do SIPs on your own but SIP's are no more complicated than other construction processes. Further, great flexibility arises from making panels in the geometry and configuration you need. There is a growing demand for DIY SIPS from homeowners who want to build green affordable housing. A little ingenuity, hard work, and commitment means you get what you want and not what others manufacture.

Best regards,

Rich
http://sippanel.iaddicshelters.com/

Rich,
you may want to change the panel shelter picture on your website to one that does not show the roof peak saggging?
just sayin.

I ran into a guy this week making his own metal sip. For his cost they are superb. however from a large manufacture stand point they weren't very good. Air gaps between panels, still required sheeting, and alot of wood used in the construction but being that he built the panels on site using a hot wire I think he did pretty good. structurally I actually like them. My only problem with sips is that they might fail in a fire if the foam melts away. he used 1"x1.5" metal tubing (12 gauge I belive) as studs spaced ever 24" both in side and out. the foam in his house had no structural bearing at all. However because of all the wood in the home it was somewhat self deafeeting. Still one of the driving forces of progress is people willing to be inventive

I understand that some contractors make their own roof SIPs by pouring foam between two thin sheets of metal.  The two sheets of metal are placed in a jig.  The jig can be arched if desired to form a curved roof.

The shelter you see on the Shelter site is just that. A low cost shelter used in the developing world and should you every see the living conditions of poverty situations then the improvements using and IADDIC products would be self evident. However for such a high end site as your to have panels with dented corners is rather odd... And after all the basis for this discussion was DIY panels and unless I missed something you do not offer DIY panels...Just sayin back!

IADDIC,
I have seen the conditions in Guyana, Honduras and Haiti,
I have also supplied and built low cost housing in Haiti using the same standard that was used for my own home,
third world cultures do not deserve substandard materials

This is crazy...1.4 billion people live in conditions that are so inadequate that it would make ones head spin. However; to call our work/products substandard based on one photo is ludicrous. Further nothing you could build (based on your website) would serve to fall in the affordable range. At $2.00 per day very little is actually affordable and to incrementally raise living conditions to adequacy while working for affordability takes compromise. Seeing as International low cost housing solutions are between $500 and $1000.00 chances are your housing is neither low cost, affordable, and certainly not built to the same standards as your house. If it were you'd have solved one of the world’s largest problems with respect to housing. Seeing as half a million plus people are still living in tents in Haiti and the improved living conditions derived from a rigid wall, under a $1,000 shelter that will last indefinitely is vastly superior to the present solution of tents. I'll submit a slight bow exists in that photo on our website and I will also submit that that bow only offends the sensibilities of western eyes as those who live on the dumps of major metropolitan cities or in the slums of the world; their lives are impacted for generations when the health of the family improves, an income can be generated, women and children are behind rigid walls and locked doors of shelters that are truly low cost, affordable and adequate.

I was not refering to "our" work as substandard, only the work "you" posted, ever heard of the saying"if your going to do something, do it right1"


house in Haiti done right..............

Looks good, however; there is no way this is an affordable house serving the majority in Haitians and if the purpose was to build a house to build self pride then you have done an outstanding job. However this does not represent a job well done in the context of sustainability, serving the Haitians, delivering affordability at under $1,000.00. So the point of all this is you can argue and disrespect and believe you are doing a great thing by pointing out a flaw in a photo ...just sayin...but as for serving mankind by delivering a better, affordable house...not well done. Beside...the point still stands, none of this has anything to do with the original posters desire to identify DIY SIPs which you do not have. See ya around dude. You're wasting time!

The question I have with DIY SIPs is that the SIP itself relies on the adhesion of the steel/wood to eps to steel/wood for its strength and function. If any of these fail, the entire SIP fails. So everything hinges on the adhesion process being done in a 100% clean and perfect environment and that the chemicals used create a permanent bond that needs to last 100+ years.

SIPs are a different animal as it requires a chemical/glue adhesion to be functional and this gives it the "I-beam" function. It's not like a typical stick frame which requires a mechanical connection (screw or nail).

What is the failure rate of DIY SIPs?