I have been reading on here a bit lately. I have some questions.  The info section is down or the links are not correct it keeps giving a 404 error but my question is about the different types of insulation. 
I  understand some is Styrofoam, like a cup and some is the expandable foam.  I gather there's like 4? different' types of insulating types? I have questions about the foam, i've read it deteriorates more so than the styrofoam?  forgive me for not using the "Proper" language for it but so be it.  I need to study my closed cell and open cell polystyrene? if that's the proper name of it. 
SO, as far as an SIP goes i understand with the steel you don't have to worry about the humidity as much?  We live in east Texas and we all know it's humid enough here sometimes.    I do NOT want any pointers on which brand is better as of yet I do want pointers as to whether or not go with osb or steel.  I am more of a factual person and will look everything up and read what studies i can. 
Personal experience?  Has anyone here built a sip  house with osb and then steel after?  which would be best?  which for a middle layer?  for the insulation factor.  
Thanks for any educating responses!

Expanded polystyrene comes in two basic flavors extruded (called "XPS") and beaded stuff of coffee cups and coolers (called "EPS"). Both are closed cell , but EPS is somewhat more vapor-permeable (to water vapor) due to the interstitial spacing between beads. Both are fairly vapor retardent at 3" or more, but not a true vapor barrier.

XPS is initially slightly higher performance, due to the characteritics of it's HFC blowing agents (which are VERY powerful greenhouse gases), whereas EPS loses most of it's (much lower impact) pentane blowing agent at the factory, where most of it is recovered, often burned for process heat. Eventually XPS performance drops to the ~R4.2/inch of EPS as it's HFCs leak out.

Polyisocyanurate is also blown with low impact pentane but tests at R6/inch or higher. It's chemically related to polyurethane, which is the most common forms of spray foam.

Closed cell polyurethane has about the same R/inch of polyisocyanurate foam board, but most of it is blown with HFCs. (A couple of exceptions are Demilec's Heatlok HFO High Rise, and LaPolla's Foam-Lok 2000-4G. The HFO1234ze blown foams tend to run about R7/inch.

Open cell polyurethane ranges from R3.7/inch for 0.5lbs per cubic foot goods, about R4/inch for 0.7lbs goods, with a few 1lb density offerings as well. Open cell foam is blown with water, and is by far the greenest foam insulation.

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Hi RRLewis,

I built a steel SIP home in south Louisiana, which has a similar climate to yours, and I am very pleased. If there are any questions I can answer I will be happy to help.

RRLewis,
I am a retired SIP's builder and have built with all types of SIPs (OSB,steel, aluminum, MGo and fiber cement)I
chose steel for my own personal home built in 2001 and particularly recommend for anywhere heat, humidity and termites are an issue.

RRLewis,
according to environmentalists it will take about 500 years for EPS to decompose in a landfill, probably will last longer above ground and in between skins.
I think a bigger concern is how long will your skins last on a SIP,
just received this news report thru google yesterday regarding water damaged OSB: School with OSB SIP Damage

In response to the above reference to "water damaged OSB" and the associated link, I think that most building industry professionals would accept, as fact, that virtually any building envelope product may be compromised, and/or fail, due to improper installation of any of the components that were utilized in the construction of any given project.......Following is an excerpt from the subject link: "The water damage was caused by a failure of the exterior XXXXXXXX brand composite siding and improperly installed water barriers around 10 windows, according to an engineering report by Cordlia Capital Projects Group"........

Posted By The Sipper on 20 Jul 2017 08:44 PM
In response to the above reference to "water damaged OSB" and the associated link, I think that most building industry professionals would accept, as fact, that virtually any building envelope product may be compromised, and/or fail, due to improper installation of any of the components that were utilized in the construction of any given project.......Following is an excerpt from the subject link: "The water damage was caused by a failure of the exterior XXXXXXXX brand composite siding and improperly installed water barriers around 10 windows, according to an engineering report by Cordlia Capital Projects Group"........

The Sipper,
It is the goal for any credible builder to keep the water out however, OSB is compromised easily by water. There are panel skins available that are resistant to water and can be covered with a cladding or left exposed to the weather.

"The Sipper,
It is the goal for any credible builder to keep the water out however, OSB is compromised easily by water. There are panel skins available that are resistant to water and can be covered with a cladding or left exposed to the weather."

That's true, Mr. Kavala, There are are other panel skins available for SIPs but OSB is still the most widely used option in that regard, and has many advantages and benefits as opposed to those other choices......Having said that, the
key word here is "choice"....

Thank you for all the helpful comments.
Dana1, So, if i got this right, blown foam would give the best R-value for the most part? or is it really going to matter? We do live in East Texas and can have high humidity.
Jelly, who did you use for yours? Has anyone heard of this company out of Kerrville, Tx? I have talked to them on the phone about a year ago and from what I remember i believe he is more like fiber cement or sounds to be something like backerboard? https://www.squarebuiltsales.com/residential
If you scroll alll the way to the bottom of that page it gives a bit more detail about their product.
Did most of you pick a house plan from the SIP provider or bring your own plans?
Oh, and one more thing, I read somewhere the eaves on the houe can be wider/out farther with SIP's than regular construction?

Cmkavala, your site takes me to pictures of homes constructed. Was that your company or is it still in business? I didn't find other info there.

Posted By RRLewis on 26 Jul 2017 12:14 AM
Cmkavala, your site takes me to pictures of homes constructed. Was that your company or is it still in business? I didn't find other info there.

RRLewis,
My contracting company Marquis Construction & Development Inc. (www.southernsips.com) is no longer open,
However I still sell "panels only" for two companies as an independent rep
the greensips.com website is a "Photo Gallery" with 60 different project albums containing over 1,000 construction photos of "in progress " and "finished" projects of residential and light commercial.
one album contains standard connection details.
I routinely update with new photos as soon as they become available thru my customers

If there is something specific you need, please feel free to email me at [email protected]

RRLewis, I designed and built my home myself as an owner/builder with metal SIPs (manufactured by a company that was eventually bought out by Kingspan). The plans were converted by an independent house designer who specializes in metal SIPs.

Yes with metal SIPs, overhangs can be much deeper and with prefinished soffits.

The site you pointed to in Texas does not appear to be using a true SIP construction method.

It is my understanding that SIPs are for cheap temporary housing projects as various panels are just glued to foam... How long does one think glue can last? When the glue fails the SIP fails. Are there SIP companies that warranty for the full project cost of failure for at least 50 years? Are there any old SIP buildings that are still standing that have not been condemned? Am I wrong in my SIP understanding?

Posted By icfbound on 26 Jul 2017 02:24 PM
It is my understanding that SIPs are for cheap temporary housing projects as various panels are just glued to foam... How long does one think glue can last? When the glue fails the SIP fails. Are there SIP companies that warranty for the full project cost of failure for at least 50 years? Are there any old SIP buildings that are still standing that have not been condemned? Am I wrong in my SIP understanding?

icfbound,
yes you are wrong in your understanding
do the roof trusses you use on your ICF construction carry a 50 year warranty?
and the plywood that is glued, just how long do you think these will last? Certainly they will fall apart before 50 years?
Actually Frank Lloyd Wright built with SIPs. I think his stuff is still around,
these $2,000,000. plus homes are not temporary

We have done 4ft cantilevers with 6" panels,
6ft cantilevers with 8" panels and
8ft cantilevers with 12" panels.

Frank Lloyd Wright built homes that were architecturally pleasing to some but his design and construction methods were disastrous and long term problem to all:

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-frank-lloyd-wright-got-wrong-2016-8

Plywood had problems in its early days too and no one would go near it until it had a long history of success. Same story with OSB. Both are also only used such that they can be replaced when they fail and they often do fail well before 50 years.

Its pretty hard to just replace SIP walls when they fail without replacing the entire building. If I can't get a long warranty there will at least be a long successful history of using the product before I touch it. SIPs are great for cheap quick builds but I wouldn't expect them to last any longer than the best plywood and OSB products and good luck then.

Posted By icfbound on 26 Jul 2017 03:39 PM
Frank Lloyd Wright built homes that were architecturally pleasing to some but his design and construction methods were disastrous and long term problem to all:

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-frank-lloyd-wright-got-wrong-2016-8

Plywood had problems in its early days too and no one would go near it until it had a long history of success. Same story with OSB. Both are also only used such that they can be replaced when they fail and they often do fail well before 50 years.

Its pretty hard to just replace SIP walls when they fail without replacing the entire building. If I can't get a long warranty there will at least be a long successful history of using the product before I touch it. SIPs are great for cheap quick builds but I wouldn't expect them to last any longer than the best plywood and OSB products and good luck then.

RRLewis,
Thanks for the article that had nothing to do with SIPs?
the reason why Frank Lloyd Wright didn't use ICF's is they weren't invented yet.
In fact SIPs have a proven track record of 82 years, 32 more than ICF's

so at this point in time SIPs have been around longer than ICF's,
If you knew me, you would know that I don't promote wood products at all, the SIP's that I have been most involved with do not have any wood at all.
as far as repairs, the SIPs that I have used are easily repairable if needed (but have not had that need yet)


When I was still contracting, I was certified to install the LOGIX ICF system, but after the training decided not to get involved with ICF's for several reasons:
A. Labor intensive and time consuming.
B. A lot more expensive than SIP construction.
C.When something goes wrong, It goes very wrong, "Cast in Concrete" so to speak and very expensive to correct.

in 2008 I sold a SIPs project to an owner /builder just South of Atlanta, building on the same property that had an ICF home he helped build for his parents, after just 2 years his parents home was ridden with termites inside and out attacking the ICF inner and outer form. How does one easily rectify that situation?

The only reason I posted the link about Frank Lloyd Wright’s bad track record with design and construction was because of your comment:

“Actually Frank Lloyd Wright built with SIPs. I think his stuff is still around.”

His stuff sucks for durability just like SIPs. His stuff had to be replaced soon after his buildings were built just like many SIP buildings these days. So not a good example if you are trying to promote SIPs...

By the way, I am not a fan of ICF either because of the same foam termite issues like SIPs. My screen name is an oxymoron. However at least ICF structure doesn’t fail and collapse like SIPs when the foam is badly degraded by termites or the glue fails from age, fire, manufacturing defects, moisture, or whatever.

Just cause something is cheap and easy doesn't mean it is good for the person who is then stuck with it. And it is also pretty hard to sue SIP companies and the contractors who use them because they all are like a fart in the wind...here today and gone tomorrow...

Posted By icfbound on 26 Jul 2017 08:39 PM
The only reason I posted the link about Frank Lloyd Wright’s bad track record with design and construction was because of your comment:

“Actually Frank Lloyd Wright built with SIPs. I think his stuff is still around.”

His stuff sucks for durability just like SIPs. His stuff had to be replaced soon after his buildings were built just like many SIP buildings these days. So not a good example if you are trying to promote SIPs...

By the way, I am not a fan of ICF either because of the same foam termite issues like SIPs. My screen name is an oxymoron. However at least ICF structure doesn’t fail and collapse like SIPs when the glue fails from age, fire, manufacturing defects, moisture, or whatever.

Just cause something is cheap and easy doesn't mean it is good for the person who is then stuck with it. And it is also pretty hard to sue SIP companies and the contractors who use them because they all are like a fart in the wind...here today and gone tomorrow...

thanks for clarification of your screen name