|
|
|
Deep in the Heart of Taxes
Last Post 15 Mar 2009 09:07 AM by Road Block. 154 Replies. |
Sort:
|
|
 Prev Next |
You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
|
|
Bruce
Basic Member
Posts:142
 |
| 25 Feb 2009 03:03 PM |
|
kjseuferer said, "What is really wrong with this bill is the fact that most of the energy tax credits are for existing homes."
I could be wrong, but the way I've read it, the geothermal installation is for any property. The wording was something like for the installation of a geothermal property....
You're right on the insulation credits as being worded as to an existing residence. However, the geothermal, the solar, the wind, and the fuel cell aren't worded that way.
I'm sure folks will correct me if I'm wrong. It will be interesting to see how much work this creates. |
|
|
|
|
183eej
Basic Member
Posts:127
|
| 25 Feb 2009 04:07 PM |
|
The following was posted on the Energy Star web site on 2/24/09: Question:
I am building my own home, can I qualify for any of the tax credits?
Answer:
A 30% tax credit (including labor and installation), with no upper limit, is available for consumers building new homes (through 2016) for:
- Photovoltaics
- Solar Water Heaters
- Geothermal Heat Pumps
- Small Wind Energy Systems
- Fuel Cells
To qualify for the fuel cell credit, the new home you are building must be planned as your principle residence. The credit for photovoltaic, solar water heaters, geothermal heat pumps, and small wind energy systems does not have to be for your principal residence; so, rental units, second homes, etc... are all eligible. See the Instructions attached to 2008 IRS Form 5695 to help you further with this provision.
The tax credit for these products is ONLY available for existing homes:
- Windows/Skylights
- Doors
- Insulation
- Roofs (metal and asphalt)
- HVAC
- Water Heaters (non-solar)
- Bio-mass Stoves
There is a $2,000 tax credit for building a new energy efficient home, but it is ONLY available to "eligible contractors"; therefore, owner/builders may not receive the builder tax credit unless employed as eligible contractors. Home builders who qualify as eligible contractors are eligible for the $2,000 tax credit for a new energy efficient home that achieves 50% energy savings for heating and cooling over the 2004 International Energy Conservation Code (IECC) and supplements. At least 1/5 of the energy savings must come from building envelope improvements. There is also a $1,000 tax credit to the builder of a new manufactured home achieving 30% energy savings for heating and cooling over the 2004 IECC and supplements (at least 1/3 of the savings must come from building envelope improvements), or a manufactured home meeting the requirements established by EPA under the ENERGY STAR program.
What I am not clear about is whether if the 30% geothermal tax credit is limited to owner/builders on new construction. In other words, if an "eligible contractor" builds a new home, is the 30% geothermal tax credit available for the homebuyer. |
|
| Dale Walker<br>EarthTap<br>www.earthtapenergy.com<br>Where the sun never sets on energy savings<br> |
|
|
183eej
Basic Member
Posts:127
|
| 25 Feb 2009 04:38 PM |
|
Here is another post I just found on the Energy Star web site that was posted on 2/19/09:
Question:
Is there a tax credit for ENERGY STAR new homes?
Answer:
There are no consumer tax credits for ENERGY STAR new homes.
However, home builders are eligible for a $2,000 tax credit for a new energy efficient home that achieves 50% energy savings for heating and cooling over the 2004 International Energy Conservation Code (IECC) and supplements. At least 1/5 of the energy savings must come from building envelope improvements. There is also a $1,000 tax credit to the builder of a new manufactured home achieving 30% energy savings for heating and cooling over the 2004 IECC and supplements (at least 1/3 of the savings must come from building envelope improvements), or a manufactured home meeting the requirements established by EPA under the ENERGY STAR program .
Most of the consumer tax credits for energy efficiency (windows, doors, insulation, roofs, HVAC, and non-solar water heaters) are only available for existing homes - and they only available for improvements "placed in service" in 2009 and 2010. Through 2016, consumers building new homes are eligible for tax credits for photovoltaics, solar water heating, geothermal heat pumps, small wind energy systems, and fuel cells ("residential energy efficiency property" in Section 25D). To qualify for the fuel cell credit, the new home you are building must be planned as your principle residence. The credit for photovoltaic, solar water heaters, geothermal heat pumps, and small wind energy systems does not have to be for your principal residence; so, rental units, second homes, etc... are all eligible. See the Instructions attached to 2008 IRS Form 5695 to help you further with this provision. |
|
| Dale Walker<br>EarthTap<br>www.earthtapenergy.com<br>Where the sun never sets on energy savings<br> |
|
|
kjseuferer
New Member
Posts:17
|
| 25 Feb 2009 10:02 PM |
|
Posted By geodean on 02/25/2009 2:58 PM
Where did you see that the credit is not for new houses?
If you go to this website, http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=products.pr_tax_credits, you will see this quote.
"If you are building a new home, you can qualify for the tax credit for photovoltaics, solar water heaters, small wind systems and fuel cells, but not the tax credits for windows, doors, insulation, roofs, HVAC, or non-solar water heaters."
Since they did not specifically say Geo, I would guess that it is an HVAC system.
However, if you go here http://energystar.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/energystar.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=3006&p_created=1171996115&p_sid=M7N-6HLi&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MjEmcF9wcm9kcz0zMTImcF9jYXRzPSZwX3B2PTEuMzEyJnBfY3Y9JnBfcGFnZT0x&p_li=&p_topview=1
you will see that geothermal is lumped in with the solar and wind systems. SO, it is very confusing, as in all things government. It only makes sense to give new homes the tax credit also.
As far as you guys that missed out last year, I do feel bad for you. However, whining does not make it better. If I had hired my house built, I too would have installed my geo heat pump last year. As it is, I am slow, therefore, I got lucky. You win some and you lose some. |
|
|
|
|
tuffluckdriller
Advanced Member
Posts:630
|
| 27 Feb 2009 10:58 AM |
|
Does anyone know if the commercial tax credit would apply to a geothermal system installed for commercial water heating?
Yes, I like to keep adding to this thread, don't you? |
|
| Clark Timothy ([email protected])<br>Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!<br>www.pinksgeothermal.com |
|
|
k0wtz
New Member
Posts:27
|
| 27 Feb 2009 11:27 AM |
|
so if im reading this corretly my new windows qualify is this correcty and the cost of my proposed go thermal system will qualify for a 30% tax credit is this right also.
thanks
bob |
|
|
|
|
tuffluckdriller
Advanced Member
Posts:630
|
| 27 Feb 2009 11:34 AM |
|
Qualified windows get a tax credit, as I understand, capped at $1,500.00. |
|
| Clark Timothy ([email protected])<br>Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!<br>www.pinksgeothermal.com |
|
|
k0wtz
New Member
Posts:27
|
| 27 Feb 2009 11:42 AM |
|
dang clark you made my day. 300.00 dollar deal in my favor.
thanks
bob |
|
|
|
|
bmancanfly
New Member
Posts:79
|
| 27 Feb 2009 06:18 PM |
|
I've read this whole thread and I still am not sure the answer to this question.
If you didn't pay enough taxes to cover the 30% tax credit, will the gov't send you a refund check? And if not, can the credit be carried over to the following years tax return?
(example: if I paid $1000 in taxes but am eligible for a $4000 geo tax credit will the gov't send me a $3000 refund check? And if not can the $3000 be carried over to next year) |
|
|
|
|
macalata
New Member
Posts:35
|
| 27 Feb 2009 06:55 PM |
|
Ok, so now I'm confused...if I had a new door and new windows installed, a tax credit should be available from the stimulus package? |
|
|
|
|
k0wtz
New Member
Posts:27
|
| 27 Feb 2009 07:02 PM |
|
yes that s right i am seeing this a method to get people older homes updated makes sense to me as my home i built 35 years ago is nowhere as efficient as a new one. they do things now to footers, foundations and basements i cant comprehend but they help tremendously.
in my case im going to do much more to tighten up my home more. i looked at my old wood garage door today and it is going out the door very soon.
bob |
|
|
|
|
Palace Geothermal
Veteran Member
Posts:1609
|
| 27 Feb 2009 07:07 PM |
|
Posted By bmancanfly on 02/27/2009 6:18 PM
I've read this whole thread and I still am not sure the answer to this question.
If you didn't pay enough taxes to cover the 30% tax credit, will the gov't send you a refund check? And if not, can the credit be carried over to the following years tax return?
(example: if I paid $1000 in taxes but am eligible for a $4000 geo tax credit will the gov't send me a $3000 refund check? And if not can the $3000 be carried over to next year) No you will not get a refund. Yes you can carry it over to next year.
|
|
Dewayne Dean
<br>www.PalaceGeothermal.com<br>Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%<br>We heat and cool with dirt!<br>visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system |
|
|
tuffluckdriller
Advanced Member
Posts:630
|
| 27 Feb 2009 10:16 PM |
|
Windows and doors, etc., MUST be energy star rated to qualify for the credits.
As some have said before, whether it's refundable or not, retroactive or not, we'll most likely have to wait until the IRS writes the code on this. I'm sure they won't screw anything up. They are the deity of government, right? (does anyone know how to type with a sarcastic font?) |
|
| Clark Timothy ([email protected])<br>Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!<br>www.pinksgeothermal.com |
|
|
183eej
Basic Member
Posts:127
|
| 28 Feb 2009 05:56 AM |
|
Posted By tuffluckdriller on 02/27/2009 10:58 AM
Does anyone know if the commercial tax credit would apply to a geothermal system installed for commercial water heating?
Yes, I like to keep adding to this thread, don't you? Clark, From what I have gleaned, a commercial hot water application will qualify for a 10% investment tax credit as well as the Section 179 deduction which allows up to $250,000 to be expensed in the year the equipment was placed in service. For cash flow purposes, I understand the 10% investment tax credit can be substituted with a grant check to be paid within 60 days of the install. |
|
| Dale Walker<br>EarthTap<br>www.earthtapenergy.com<br>Where the sun never sets on energy savings<br> |
|
|
tuffluckdriller
Advanced Member
Posts:630
|
| 28 Feb 2009 09:54 AM |
|
Yeah, I found that yesterday finally. Thanks. |
|
| Clark Timothy ([email protected])<br>Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!<br>www.pinksgeothermal.com |
|
|
senecarr
Basic Member
Posts:211
|
| 02 Mar 2009 08:58 AM |
|
Clark, typical internet convention is to type out your line followed by the sarcasm tag. Such as
DX geothermal systems never work, cost more than NG/ propane/ oil, and leak deadly refrigerant constantly. /sarcasm.
The law doesn't look set to change how the credit works, just the amount you can take. Again, it is in part up to the IRS implementing the law.
As the IRS implemented, for 2008, the credit was non-refundable (couldn't get back more than you paid in) but it did carry-forward (unused amounts could be used next year until it was used up).
That said, even though this credit is non-refundable, it is used before the very common child tax credit, which means if you take this credit, it might turn your child tax credit into the additional child tax credit, which is REFUNDABLE, so you COULD end up getting a refund bigger than you paid in.
At the end of the day, the information about the tax credits on here need even MORE caveats than the geothermal advice. Just as Joe's pointed out that you should check your specific situation for geothermal out with your local expert / installer first, the same applies for taxes, and on top of that, as far as I know, no one here is tax expert. I know in my company we actually try to avoid liabilities over this kind of advice to the extent that when one customer complained that he couldn't e-file a return because the random social security number he had entered for a person that didn't have one yet, our support team had to tell him they would see what they could do about fixing that bug instead of giving him the advice of not using fraudulent social security numbers. |
|
|
|
|
tuffluckdriller
Advanced Member
Posts:630
|
| 02 Mar 2009 10:29 AM |
|
This would explain why my brother had his return increased by $2,000 because of the 2008 tax credit. |
|
| Clark Timothy ([email protected])<br>Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!<br>www.pinksgeothermal.com |
|
|
thevinmanfxst
New Member
Posts:36
|
| 09 Mar 2009 08:55 PM |
|
So, The geniuses at work updated the EnergyStar site again...and yet, still leave ambiguity. http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=products.pr_tax_credits#c6
Excerpt #1:
Tax credits are now available for home improvements:
Excerpt #2: Geo-Thermal Heat Pump:Must be “ placed into service” before December 31, 2016. ...So, which one is it? and the $12,000 question...is it retroactive to '08 installs? (I've resigned myself to hopelessness, I just want the facts.) If anyone from the EPA is watching this board...please fire the intern you have updating your site, and tell the new one place a start and end "placed in service" date and save us some heartburn, please. |
|
|
|
|
Palace Geothermal
Veteran Member
Posts:1609
|
| 09 Mar 2009 09:48 PM |
|
|
|
Dewayne Dean
<br>www.PalaceGeothermal.com<br>Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%<br>We heat and cool with dirt!<br>visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system |
|
|
thevinmanfxst
New Member
Posts:36
|
| 09 Mar 2009 10:31 PM |
|
"Can be used in more than one year" ??? "Installed between 1/1/2008 and 12/31/2016"??? I think I'm even more confuzzled...
|
|
|
|
|
| You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
Active Forums 4.1
 |
Membership: |
 |
Latest:
croccohvacusa |
 |
New Today:
0 |
 |
New Yesterday:
0 |
 |
Overall:
35027 |
 |
People Online: |
 |
Visitors:
149 |
 |
Members:
0 |
 |
Total:
149 |
|
|
|