I had just done all the research I could do and was ready to jump on the geo band wagon and was leaning towards installing an Earthlinked DX system in southern Missouri.   After the rebates offered (or supposedly offered) by the local utility of $750 per ton and with the federal 30% tax credit, this  Earthlinked system was nearly the same price as a SEER 18 heat pump with propane split unit back up (95% efficiency).   Now I am finding out that the local utility is not allowing the rebate for the Earthlinked DX system......only the water looped system.....Sounds kind of fishy to me.   I would think if it is good enough for the feds it would be good enough for the local utility.   For me the $3850 rebate would be a deal breaker.   I do not want to use the deep wells in my area that would be required for the water based system because of the concerns of hitting caverns.   A guy up the hill hit a cavern at 180 ft and I do not want to take that chance.   Any opinions on here why a local utility would deny a rebate on a DX system versus a water looped system.   I am awaiting a call from them.   I was told of this by the local Earthlinked installer after his conversation with the local electric company.   My bubble has been busted....

Can you do horizontal loops? How many tons is your system?

Nope, this is an established neighborhood and has postage sized lots, as it is, they would have had to drill in the front yard.  The homes owners association was ok with this as long as the drillers did not wreck havoc on the roads in the process.   Horizontal is way out no way, no how, not enough room.   I fired off a note to the Missouri Department of resources (well compliance division) to see what their take is on Direct contact DX systems.  The geothermal man is suppose to contact me tommorrow.  I will let everyone know what they say.  I want to know if My utility is on sound legal grounds for denying a Dx system or if somewhere up the ranks of the utility has decided the Dx systems sounds like they are  unsafe for the environment (and so it shall be).   I was ready to pull the trigger, now I am just miffed ....at all the time and effort I have spent researching this stuff.    I have shot a note off to the Missouri Local Earthlinked distributor to see if he has run across this issue yet in Southern Missouri.   If not, I am sure he will before long with more people asking/opting to go geo.

Ooops  it is a 5 ton system they have proposed.   I can live with the $17,000 cost (before credits and rebates) as long as the gov. tax credit and local util. rebates comes through but now I am not so sure.

You don't always have to do "deep" wells for water source loops. In karst areas with dissolution caverns or areas with extremely hard formations at depth, it is perfectly acceptable to install shallower borings. You simply have to install more borings to get the required footage. However, you do need enough space to put them the suggested 15-20' apart. IGSHPA wants a minimum 50' deep borehole, but this is somewhat arbitrary. -Adam

Even at 100 ft bores with 2 to 3 per ton not sure it would be physically possible to space 10 to 15 of these bore holes in the space confinements of my front yard at 15 to 20 feet apart. My front yard is approx. 100 ft wide and 30 foot deep. Take out 18 x 30 driveway and you have even less space. It will be interesting to hear what the Department of Resources has to say about the DX systems in the state. I am sure many, many has already been installed in the state.

I'm with you.  The Earthlinked system should qualify because it is AHRI certified.  I'm surprised the utilities lawyers would sign off on anything other than AHRI certification. 
I'm guessing this is a low level employee call at the utility and not necessarily official.  You might consider running it up the utility flagpole to get more visibility.  If that doesn't help, you might get your Earthlinked Sales Rep to contact Earthlinked for help.

This was the local coops response. (below) So I shot off a note to the parent company for further explanation.

To the corporate Associated Electric in Springfield Missouri:

Just curious of the reasoning of denying rebates for DX geothermal systems. They have been around for 20 plus years. Rebate forms on White River Electrical Coop does not specifically state DX systems will not be approved. The web site indicates a blanket geo thermal installation would be eligible for rebates of $750 per ton. If I would have installed this system ...then been denied the rebate....I would not have been a happy person. You had better clarify your position on geothermal installs or or there is going to be some very angry customers that feel like they were misled......without explanation........ Just curious on reasoning of trying to save electricity in a very environmentally friendly way...

Response from the local Coop:

White River Electric distributes the rebate program given to us by our power provider, Associated Electric in Springfield, MO. Items to be rebated are decided by cost feasibility and risk feasibility studies and then approved or disapproved by a committee of coop managers throughout the state. That committee has chosen not offer a rebate on DX systems at this time, therefore White River Valley Electric does not offer a rebate on DX systems. They are not banned in the state of Missouri, but DNR does require a special permit for the installation of these systems.

I have not heard back from the Missouri Dept of Resources on this issue due to the Holidays. Stay tuned...

Interesting that DNR (Dept of Natural Resources?) requires a special permit. I have talked to TCEQ (Texas Commission on Environmental Quality) which, I presume, is an equivalent agency, and their concern was sediment run off. Keep the drill cuttings out of the storm drains and they had no problems with it.

Not sure if that is true or not about the permit... as I have not heard back from the MO. DNR because of the holiday. This should be a concern in general for the whole industry. I have shot off letters to anybody/everybody I can think of including the vice pres. of Earthlinked, Joe Parsons. He immediately responded and stated he will get back with me after the holiday, he was out of town.. I have shot off a letter to the local newspaper editorial, TV and even my state rep. I have no stake in this other than wanting to get a geo install that will work for me on my property. I have even shot a letter to the board of the Missouri Elect. Coop. (the state wide [email protected]) We shall see if any responds. If this country is on the conservation bandwagon than I am not sure why a electric coop would make such a questionable decision that could effect potential installs in the state of Missouri. Install more polluting power plants instead of trying to get people to conserve. This is becoming a personal crusade of sorts. Again, stay tuned. If I could install a water loop, I might, but now I am just plain mad.

Allow me to play devil's advocate...

The utility company is under NO obligation to offer rebates on anything. Because you have no  right to receive a rebate from them, they are free to offer what rebates they see fit.

One of our co-op's no longer offers rebates on "pump-n-dump" systems, it must be a re-inject or closed loop.

Bergy

I. Realize this is a up hill battle but anyone that installs a dx system and is expecting a. Rebate , they are going to get blindsided.........there are no specific exccclusions on their rebate forums or web site.......writing this on a phone so kind of hard to type.........they are obviiously going to do what they want....damn the consumer........but can't blame me for trying to get an explaination.......and warning others before jumping on the geo bandwagon.

The ability to choose who gets rebates may depend on the source of the funds. In Texas, for example, the source of the rebate funds come from the customers as an extra charge on their monthly utility bill and the funds are mandated to be tracked separately by each utility and used specifically to reduce peak demand on the grid. Therefore, it is the customer's money being distributed in the form of a rebate, not the utilities nickel. So utilities, here at least, have to follow state rules and ensure their rebate programs are fair and equitable to all their customers. Failure to do so puts them at risk of legal action and it can certainly be politically damaging for state officials, neither of which have much drive up appeal.

Dale,

The email post that came to me was about 5 times longer than what is now posted. Just wondering what happened?

Here with CL and P connecticut light and power we had to through hoop after hoop to get rebates approved for custumers . The real reason for it is the guys in charge of approving these forms are not hvac guys . basicly they have a format . you send in a start up form with all your test results at start up to show the system is working right . they enter those numbers into a computer and the computer figures if your within normal operating ranges and your approved or not . When you have a DX system half the form is blank as it is lets say a simplified exchange system . red flags go up all over the place . an education may be needed . If you want to put eer or cop restrictions (min) great . engergy star required great . a dollar cap great. worried about the aquifier and no pump and dumps makes sense . other then that the power company shouldnt care . So either they dont know enough about geo to feel comfortable confirming results of the start ups or somebody who doesnt know enough or has a bias has put a bug in there ear about DX . to draw a comparison it would be like them only giving rebates on hybrid cars made of plastic and not metal , with indifference to mileage

Exactly... ......If the goal of the utility is cut demand, then encourage it, as long as it is in a responsible way.....do not set up road blocks or have people install a system and then after the fact......oh by the way, this system does not qualify. All geo is expensive compared to air source or spit systems obviously and by making it more affordable, it will encourage them ; hence, electrical conservation. I think denying rebates will have a detrimental effect on DX installs in the state where these coops may have made a questionable decision. Now what the percentage of DX installs versus water loops, I have no clue.........but please don't set up roadblocks to the options. At least I am getting some opinions and debate on this issue, instead of ignoring it. It may never change, but change does not come from lack of trying. Thanks for listening. Like I said, I have no stake in this other than fairness and getting a reasonable priced geo installed in my small front yard, I am just a working Joe and don't have extra cash to not care.

Tell me more about these "Caves", you peaked my interest. What's in these caves? Water? Air? The thought occurs to be that if the caves were filled with air, a system could be devised to pipe the air into an ASHP and get the same effects as a Geo system at a fraction of the install cost. The medium is irrelevant, weather is air or water, we are looking to extract the heat out of the ground. An ASHP could suck the air out of the caves to use to heat / cool a house and the exhaust could be vented to outside, an improvised pump and dump system. Air would than be draw thru the cave system from the outside, where ever the inlet for the caves are. The would get warmed up by the earth as it is traveling to the caverns to the point where you drawing air from.  

I live about 1 mile north of Silver Dollar City ......Marvel Cave being the deepest in Missouri.......and there is at least 5-7 (not sure of exact number) large caverns that they know about. My take on this is I do not want to gamble on hitting a cavern. I am not guaranteed of hitting anything below my property except dirt and rock. But you are right, tapping into a large caverns air source would be an unlimited source of constant air temps in the 58 degree range, depending on how much it breaths. The only opening I am aware of is 2 commercial caverns near by, but I a sure there are plenty around, just not visible or near my property. As you know caves are unpredictable of where they go or what sink hole connects to what. I know there is many many miles of mapped terrain in these cave systems and probably many miles that is not. Not having privy to these maps, I am clueless of where it goes. The cavern up the hill I speak of was more of an expensive for the driller/owner than a asset. I understand putting casings into bore holes adds up pretty quickly. I live in a very developed subdivision. I am not willing to experiment sending down test bores 200 ft to maybe hit nothing, great idea but would just rather not gamble. Just give me a DX system that will work in my yard that I can afford and I will just quietly go away and be happy saving on my electric bill (less rebates of course). Hope I get some info back starting Monday. I did check on Mo. DNR site and there is a permit form along with water wells, but this applies to both cooper loops and plastic, so I know that what the white river contact person told me is not 100% correct. Just because a permit is needed to install a in ground heat pump still does not justify excluding one technology over another.
Now you have my curiosity in overdrive, maybe I should dig around and see if I can find some maps of the caves that has been surveyed.   I guess if they are under my property so be it.......but Missouri has some very strict legislation on cave protection and justifiably so because they are so connected with the  ground water system.... but property owners has specific rights and I guess if it is under my property????

The Morlocks may not like you using their air.

On a more serious note, this is an interesting idea but I wouldn't think a heat pump manufacturer would warranty your system if it is modified in such a way to use cave air (unless the system is designed for this, or a very similar use). I know almost nothing about caves. Could they fill up with water? Could the air contain too much of anything that could potentially cause problems with equipment (sulfur?) or health (radon?)?

I suggest going with a proven system, getting a good installer, getting a good long warranty, and have a happy and comfortable 2010.

The Austin, Texas area has these. They refer to them as voids down that way and I understand they use pea gravel for grout which I find surprising. Seems like there wouldn't be enough contact with the earth using pea gravel. I'm guessing they compensate for this by having more loop per ton. It would be interesting to hear if anyone has any experience using pea gravel.