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geonorth
New Member
Posts:22
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| 15 Feb 2010 07:38 PM |
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I have similar specs so perhaps we can trade data...
My home is about 6000 square feet. About 1000 is unfinished as we close the vents to that area. It is an R2000 home as well.
We have a Tranquility 27 6 ton unit installed in Dec 2008. My installer told me the electricity usage would be $800-$1200 more per year. It was about $1500 more but then electricity seems to be constantly rising in price in Ontario.
My electric bill is about $400-$450 / month from Dec to April time frame. Last year we kept it at 68F but this year 64F. We don't use the system much in the summer, it is set at 78F and the home didn't go much above that in 2009.
We had an oil furnace previously. I was happy with it but we were getting killed with rising oil prices. Of course, as soon as I converted to Geo, oil and natural gas dropped dramatically while electricity somehow rose in price.
Hope this helps. Glad to share more data if you would like. |
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velcomrob
New Member
Posts:38
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| 15 Feb 2010 09:40 PM |
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Hey there.
You using a 6ton for your entire home? We have. 9 tons total in our entire home.
We live in the caledon area, where are you guys?
Also if we kept our home 64f my wife woulds kill me. We keep it at 22 degrees
also we are doing an energy qaudit tomorrow to see if we have a lot of leaks going on. Also what are you spending yearly on electricity if its 400 to 450 between dec and april? Our installer told us it will cost around 2500 a year to heat our home. I need to wait until next september to see an overall picture.
So far my bills have been around 500 to 700 per month. We use around 170kwh per day. Need to see in how summer is like.
Who did you have install yours? I was supposed to get rebates on mine but the installer screwed me on it at the end. Unfortunately I didn't get anything in writing.
Its good to meet someone local with same system so we can share experiences.
What settings do you keep on your tstat? I put smart heat recovery to 45 minutes and anticipator to 6 |
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velcomrob
New Member
Posts:38
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| 15 Feb 2010 10:09 PM |
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Oh I wanted to ask.
You mentioned you closed the vents to unfinished area.
Is it ok to do that? I was thinking of doing that in my basement. |
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geonorth
New Member
Posts:22
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| 15 Feb 2010 10:41 PM |
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Sorry, maybe I mislead you. I simply close the vents in the unfinished area so the hot air circulates to another room. Nothing complicated. |
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geonorth
New Member
Posts:22
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| 15 Feb 2010 10:55 PM |
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Yes, 6 ton. Keep in mind I have an R2000 home which is extremely well insulated. With oil, even in 2007, it cost me about $3600/yr. One Geo installer told me he would have estimated over 6K.
My family hates the 64F but we hate an $800 electric bill even more. Electricity is so expensive in Ontario with all the "extra" charges it doubles the cost - and HST to boot coming in July. Thanks Dalton.
We received a zero-interest loan to purchase the equipment from Hydro One. It works out to about $2100/yr in payments over 10 years. So 3600-1500=2100, I am close to breaking even - perhaps down $300/yr. After 10 years it is paid off, so hopefully no expensive maintenance issues arise.
BTW, I also turn off the circuit breaker on my aux electric heat. I set the t-stat to no e-heat above 50F yet it still says "aux heat" sometimes on the panel for some reason. Installer told me the aux heat should only be needed on one or two really (below 0F) nights a year - have not experienced this yet this year. |
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geonorth
New Member
Posts:22
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| 15 Feb 2010 10:56 PM |
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BTW, my installer was Link Heating. |
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velcomrob
New Member
Posts:38
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| 16 Feb 2010 12:03 AM |
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Only if I knew about r2000 before building our home. Damn.
How much more did it cost to make your home R2000?
I heard about that zero interest loan. at the time when we were going to get ours installed the program was over.
if your paying $400 a month including lightning etc then thats pretty damn good.
i thought mine was around that but thus far no luck. i saw aux heating a few times myself but i havent seen it since i changed settings on my tstat.
where exactly do you set the temperature for AUX HEAT to come on? i dont see that. unless you have a different tstat then mine. im using the climatemaster tstat.
im thinking of going solar power also if itll make sense.
where abouts do you live
Also what humidifer are you using in your home? im having alot of trouble keeping humidity up. but maybe you dont have that problem because of your R2000.
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jml
New Member
Posts:55
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| 16 Feb 2010 10:20 AM |
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Posted By velcomrob on 11 Feb 2010 01:04 AM
Right now im watching my meter outside everyday to see what sort of Kw im using.
FYI, if you just want something simple to track total energy use, Zellers has these for about $100: http://www.blackanddecker.com/Energy/PowerMonitor.aspx?WT.mc_id=BDPowerMonitor They occasionally go on sale too. But you've gotta check with your local utility co to make sure your meter is compatible. |
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jml
New Member
Posts:55
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| 16 Feb 2010 10:41 AM |
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Posted By velcomrob on 16 Feb 2010 12:03 AM
im thinking of going solar power also if itll make sense.
Solar electric makes very little economic sense in Ontario, unless your local electric utility is offering some really big subsidies. Without subsidies, you'll never reach a payback point within the lifespan of the pV panels. On the other hand, a solar thermal hot water system has a very short payback period, and big government grants if you purchase the CSA-approved EnerWorks or ThermoDynamics systems. You've gotta go through the ecoEnergy initial audit and follow-up audit to qualify for the grant, but there's no requirement to have the system installed by a CGA-accredited vendor and then individually certified by CGA like there is with geo-thermal. http://www.thermo-dynamics.com/solar_boiler.html http://www.enerworks.com/index.html |
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velcomrob
New Member
Posts:38
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| 16 Feb 2010 09:09 PM |
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thats awesome!
i hope it works on my meter
thats exactly what i need!
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velcomrob
New Member
Posts:38
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| 16 Feb 2010 09:12 PM |
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Hmm!
Right now Hydro One is payong $0.81c per Kwh versus around $0.12 we are paying.
I still need to do the math once i get my geo thermal system working. I will look into those other options you mentioned also.
thanks alot1
Posted By jml on 16 Feb 2010 10:41 AM
Posted By velcomrob on 16 Feb 2010 12:03 AM
im thinking of going solar power also if itll make sense.
Solar electric makes very little economic sense in Ontario, unless your local electric utility is offering some really big subsidies. Without subsidies, you'll never reach a payback point within the lifespan of the pV panels.
On the other hand, a solar thermal hot water system has a very short payback period, and big government grants if you purchase the CSA-approved EnerWorks or ThermoDynamics systems. You've gotta go through the ecoEnergy initial audit and follow-up audit to qualify for the grant, but there's no requirement to have the system installed by a CGA-accredited vendor and then individually certified by CGA like there is with geo-thermal.
http://www.thermo-dynamics.com/solar_boiler.html
http://www.enerworks.com/index.html
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engineer
Veteran Member
Posts:2749
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| 16 Feb 2010 09:26 PM |
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81 cents per kwh?!?!
That's one heckuva feed-in rate for solar PV!
If that is guaranteed for many years then PV could make economic sense almost anywhere. |
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Curt Kinder <br><br>
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
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velcomrob
New Member
Posts:38
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| 16 Feb 2010 09:45 PM |
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here you go: http://fit.powerauthority.on.ca/Pag...ntID=10616
| Solar PV − 80.2¢/kWh |
Windpower − 13.5¢/kWh |
Waterpower − 13.1¢/kW |
| Biomass − 13.8¢/kWh |
Biogas − 16.0¢/kWh |
Landfill gas − 11.1¢/kWh | So at these rates itll make sense for me to jam my roof with panels? Their max timeframe is 20 years. |
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engineer
Veteran Member
Posts:2749
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| 17 Feb 2010 08:12 AM |
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Definitely do the math. The Germans have had very high PV feed-in rates, and the result was that they sucked up a huge chunk of worldwide PV panel production. I've read that the subsidies have tailed off, so now we're awash in low-priced panels. I saw ads in Homepower magazine for panels well below $2 per watt; just a few years ago it was hard to find anything below $4 / watt.
Make sure that 20 year deal is ironclad and remains at that price (or adjusts with inflation) for the whole 20 years |
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Curt Kinder <br><br>
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
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jml
New Member
Posts:55
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| 17 Feb 2010 12:32 PM |
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Wow! I stand corrected. Obviously things have changed in Ontario.
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velcomrob
New Member
Posts:38
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| 17 Feb 2010 05:50 PM |
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To install a 2.1Kw system is about $18k.
Id receive a payment from Hydro One for about $166 dollars per month.
The calculation comes to the conclusion that after 10 years the system would be paid off.
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velcomrob
New Member
Posts:38
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| 17 Feb 2010 06:02 PM |
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I think I will go with the SunPower panels.
but after i figure out whats wrong with my geo thermal system.
im spending around $600-$700 per month (using 5500kwh) per month. Seems very high.
i had an energy advisor to an audit on our home and we got 95. he told me R2000 is an old program and building codes have already caught up to it. so our home is very efficient.
he said our bills should be below $400 per month. Using an HE Furnace it would roughly cost $250 per month (for heating solely). So i would assume my bills would be someone lower using Geo.
we do not use alot of electricity so its not like we are using $400 worth of electricity with out TV :P
when our installer did a test on our system the in temp was 31-32 and out temp was 28-29
is this normal?
i tried fiddling with settings on our tstats for days now hoping to find the problem, no luck.
maybe these climatemaster tstats are as good as garbage?
our geo is constantly running all the time. i set a temp of 21 indoor and geo gets it to 21 but it keeps running heat.
im going crazy. someone please help :)
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geome
Advanced Member
Posts:987
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| 17 Feb 2010 06:46 PM |
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What is the model number of your thermostat? I'd be happy to look at the manual and give you my non-pro, but frugal homeowner thoughts.  |
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| Homeowner with WF Envision NDV038 (packaged) & NDZ026 (split), one 3000' 4 pipe closed horizontal ground loop, Prestige thermostats, desuperheaters, 85 gal. Marathon. |
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velcomrob
New Member
Posts:38
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geome
Advanced Member
Posts:987
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| 17 Feb 2010 07:56 PM |
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This thermostat has nice bells and whistles. I wouldn't change it unless it is faulty. I'll go through this as if I had this thermostat and had no geothermal design or system problems. Note, these ideas may not yield the best comfort, they are for efficiency. Keep setbacks, if any, to 2 degrees or less. This helps prevent aux from engaging. Use the programming features as opposed to making manual adjustments. Manual adjustments can make higher stages and aux come on faster. Enable Smart Recovery. Max out Smart Heat Staging at 120 minutes. If you have an outdoor temperature sensor installed, you can enable Electric Heat Lockout. Set it 5-10 degrees above your system design temperature that your installer should have given you. If you are happy with the results you eventually get by experimenting with everything else here, don't bother getting the outdoor temperature sensor. But, if your system can hold the thermostat setting without aux heat, and aux is going on anyway, I'd get the sensor and activate this feature. I would make the Cycles Per Hour (CPH) as low as possible. It appears to be 4. I would experiment with higher (than 4) numbers on the Anticipator since you cannot go lower than 4 for CPH. Record original settings so you can go back to them. Do your best to make only 1 change every day or three to see if you like the results. Don't tell your spouse what you are doing. Best to let them come to you if they are uncomfortable instead of intentionally letting them know that you are making changes that may make them uncomfortable (and get them thinking about it).  |
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| Homeowner with WF Envision NDV038 (packaged) & NDZ026 (split), one 3000' 4 pipe closed horizontal ground loop, Prestige thermostats, desuperheaters, 85 gal. Marathon. |
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