Update:

1.) EcoFactor is contracting with Service Experts (nation-wide AC repair and HVAC services) to install the thermostats.

2.) There has to be a local SE available to install the tstat.  There's no option to install DIY.   Only option is for SE to install it, at $20 cost.

3.) There's a local SE for me.  They're scheduled to install the EcoFactor tstat Thursday morning.

4.) I've learned that there's not a lot of 'smarts' in the EcoFactor tstat.  All of the 'decision making' is made 'at headquarters.'  What does make the tstat unique is it transmits status and temperature out via the Internet, and accepts tstat control commands from 'headquarters' via the Internet.

Best regards,

Bill

Make sure you put tape over the web cam - just kidding. :-)
Seriously though, does it have a built in wireless, ethernet cable, or something else?
Here is a link to a news story on the thermostat - http://www.the33tv.com/about/station/newsteam/kdaf-smart-thermostats-story,0,2883065.story

Posted By geome on 12 Jul 2010 07:15 PM
... Seriously though, does it have a built in wireless, ethernet cable, or something else?

I believe the EcoFactor tstat communicates to the Internet via a wireless connection in the home.  I've been told the installation will require access to my router.

Here's a new brief just published last week here in the Dallas area, that offers more details.  It's interesting to note that EcoFactor is a software company.

Best regards,

Bill

"EcoFactor, maker of software that turns programmable thermostats into smart, energy-efficient devices, has just launched its first commercial deployment in Dallas and Ft. Worth with Texan utility Oncor.

The startup’s service allows thermostats to modulate temperatures for comfort while simultaneously shaving energy demand and customers’ energy bills. After EcoFactor is installed, all homeowners have to do is adjust their thermostats as usual for several days. The software remembers what they like, in relation to seasons, weather conditions and square footage, so that they never have to worry about it again. EcoFactor’s software adjusts home temperature in real time as conditions change.

EcoFactor is one of several energy-efficiency offerings (eventually including Microsoft Hohm and Control) that takes reducing energy consumption out of users’ hands. This is a tenet of the emerging smart grid and home efficiency industries: provide tools that automate energy use so customers literally have to do nothing on a regular basis to see savings.

Oncor is folding EcoFactor’s service into its Take a Load Off Texas program. It will allow the utility to run demand response programs — reducing demand when needed to avoid grid overloads — and allow customers to save as much as 20 to 30 percent on their heating and cooling costs, the company says.

It makes sense that EcoFactor is rolling out first in Texas. Utilities are not regulated in the state, meaning that homeowners are largely free to choose between several competing energy vendors. In order to retain customers, many of these utilities need to expand their portfolios to include extras like energy efficiency tools, energy monitoring dashboards made by companies like Tendril and OpenPeak, and more. Oncor partnered with EcoFactor early, launching a trial period with a handful of homes last November.

But EcoFactor doesn’t plan to depend on utility partnerships to grow. Because it is more consumer than utility-focused, the company says it will look for partnerships with telecommunications and cable companies who also want to offer energy-efficiency services to their customers. Both Verizon and AT&T have expressed interest in getting a slice of the smart grid and energy-efficiency pie."

Update:

The 'science project' is over.


Key points:

The EcoFactor tstat is only compatible with single stage cooling and up to 2 stage heating systems (conventional or heat pump).  Thus, my 2 stage cooling / 2 stage heating (don't need emerg heat here in Dallas) tstat isn't replaceable with what EcoFactor offers at the moment.  I suspect too that the EcoFactor tstat's 2nd heating stage is actually for emergy heat use, and thus the EcoFactor tstat is really a single stage heat and single stage cool basic (HVAC functionality wise) tstat.

I had exceptionally positive communications with EcoFactor as a company.  I was impressed with their advance preparation, scheduling, communications, and support processes.  For a small company now making the plunge to be a much bigger company, I think its leadership has its act together.

I did receive a return of my initial $20 investment without any difficulty.

It looks to me the market EcoFactor is initially aiming at is residences with older HVAC systems, that are single stage heating/cooling.  It's possible they're also initially aiming at residences with only one tstat - otherwise $9 times two ($18) per month gets to be pretty steep to pay for multiple EcoFactor tstats.

In the Dallas area this initial market is very large, thus making sense why EcoFactor would choose this area to get started with a major expansion plan.


Other misc notes:

Indeed the tstat doesn't have functions beyond standard basic tstat controls.  There's no 'smarts' built in - doesn't even include time of day programming.

What the tstat does have is Zigbee 2-way communication capability for every tstat function.  For whatever you can do manually at the tstat you can do via an Internet connection.  In fact, this is where you set up your schedules.  And now, scheduling capability is much expanded beyond what typically is included with more traditional advanced tstats.  Temporary schedules for now, for later, sophisticated schedules, etc., are all done via an Internet browser screen on your PC.  And, tstat control can be done anywhere an Internet browser is available, certainly remote from the residence.

Summary here is EcoFactor is moving the tstat interface from the tstat itself to your Internet browser.  Hence, no need for sophisticated tstat hardware other than a very reliable communications port.

I learned EcoFactor's Internet browser screens are not compatible with IE 6.  Customers will need to be relatively current with various browser offerings.  Screen software technology includes AJAX.

I further gained appreciation that EcoFactor is a software company.  They're purchasing their tstats from a 3rd party.  Their 'new way of doing business' appears to be based on sophisticated software implemented algorithm(s) that are used to closely control tstats remotely from their 'monitoring headquarters.'

Outside temperature is an important data 'piece' needed for the algorithms, in addition to inside temperature, TOU plans, etc.  Outside temp is obtained via a 3rd party service - no outside temperature sensor is actually installed at the residence.

Weather forecast is another important data 'piece.'  And likewise this information is contracted for via a 3rd party service.


Overall:

I think this is an interesting business model that has excellent merit, given the market that apprears to being aimed at.  I'm a lot more knowledeable on the model now, as compared to my initial skeptical reaction.


Hope all of this thread was interesting and informative to everyone.

Best regards,

Bill

Thanks Bill. Do you know if the browser interfaces directly with the thermostat directly during homeowner programming (akin to using a browser to access router settings) or if the settings are uploaded, and then downloaded (all at once, or as needed.) I like the idea of having all of the homeowner settings programmed at one time (instead of downloaded as needed) in case of communication problems. I understand that the real time adjustments happen multiple times over the course of a day (or even an hour).

Can simple up/down temperature changes be made at the thermostat for elderly people that may not have, or be proficient with computers?

Here is an update on the installation of the PECO Smart A/C Saver at my father-in-law's house:
The device was installed yesterday. He told me that only a power interruption devise was installed outside at the compressor (no new thermostat). I assume this means that Curt was right, and that the fan will continue to operate (even though the fan is in automatic mode) when power is switched off at the compressor and there is a thermostat call for AC.

I think the concept has merit - remotely managing setbacks, and recognition that every house in a given city or county could reasonably be assumed to experience approximately the same outdoor temp so that outdoor reset response could originate from a single thermometer reasonably located in the metro area.

It also gives a utility a conduit or single point of contact to manage interruptions or duty-cycling systems for customers who sign up for TOU deals. The utility could fine tune the cutbacks to shed load only from critically stressed service areas.

All that said, I think I'd look at this as a great option for "other people" along the same vein as advocating for mass transit so that "other people" aren't on the road when I need to drive somewhere...

Posted By geome on 14 Jul 2010 10:55 AM
... if the browser interfaces directly with the thermostat directly during homeowner programming (akin to using a browser to access router settings) or if the settings are uploaded, and then downloaded (all at once, or as needed.)
 
... Can simple up/down temperature changes be made at the thermostat for elderly people that may not have, or be proficient with computers?

The browser interfaces with the tstat in near real time.  Change a tstat setting via the browser and the changed setting is reflected at the tstat in near real time.

Same comment in reverse.  Make a change at the tstat and the change is reflected at the browser in near real time.

The tstat itself always functions as a normal traditional digital tstat.  Make a change at the tstat and it's immediately implemented to the direct connected HVAC equipment.

The new pieces are browser remote control of the tstat, substantially expanded tstat programming capabilities via the browser, and 'headquarters' making continual tstat automatic/remote changes designed to optimize best possible minimum energy cost.

New technology involved includes Zigbee communication to/from a gateway box, that is plugged into a router.

Best regards,

Bill

I think that computer and Internet connected thermostats are the right approach. Only Internet data can tell you that a cold front is moving in and it might be a good idea to build up some heat in that slow changing radiant slab.

Cool. Lets let internet meteorologists tell us whats comfortable and what the weather will be.
As the saying goes, wish I could be wrong half the time and get top wage.
The only time forecasts and hvac systems perform well is when equipment is oversized enough to make up for boo boos.
Part of the philosophy of tightly designed systems is that extreme weather lags in reducing comfort in occupied spaces (due to insulation). If you shut system down prior to a "suprise" temp swing, tightly designed (most efficient) hvac systems may not be able to recover.
j

I like the variable speed compressor feature of my Daikin AAHP. Most of the time it has one duty cycle per day, but during that time it ramps up & down as the cooling load changes in the house. The other afternoon I was outside by the outdoor unit. The fan was turning slowly and the air coming off the coils was barely warm. The house was a comfortable 75°. Our power company offers a $7/mo rebate for 3 summer months if they are allowed to to install a remote shut off on your AC. Just like the EcoFactor thermo, that approach is aimed at the simple one stage AC system. Not a good choice for a system like mine.
I could easily save 20-30% in summer, raise the thermo to 80+, be uncomfortable, and put up with cranky wife. Nope!

You can save far more and get less surprises by decreasing the conditioned temp. lower in winter or higher in summer. Or put more money into tightening up the house so it puts less work on the heat pump. The tstat is designed to allow the utility to build less capacity, not to save you money. You save money by it being shut off. You can do that yourself.
I had TOU electric in my home years ago. i put timers on things or chose to use power in a timely hour such as washing laundry in the evening. But I was the computer behind it so if I needed it when it was at peak cost, I just paid it. Overall it saved me a lot of money. They dropped the program so now I have some used timers for sale

Posted By engineer on 14 Jul 2010 10:55 AM
...and recognition that every house in a given city or county could reasonably
assumed to experience approximately the same outdoor temp ...

That might work in the flatlands, but in PA's hilly terrain, my car's ambient
outdoor temp display routinely shows significant temperature swings over
very short distances -- easily 10-15F variations in a few tenths of a mile.

Any serious motorcyclist or bicyclist has experienced amazing delta-Ts in
the space of a hundred yards or less.

I agree that variations of 10-15 degrees occur in 'microclimates' within a given area, but if a good average is used it should suffice for 'coarse control' of factors such as how far in advance of a setup time a system needs to be activated.

For example, if it is 5 degrees outside, a system recovering from a nighttime setback might need to start at 3:30 AM to avoid heavy use of strips, but if it is 40 degrees, the startup could be delayed until 5:00 or 5:30. Minor variations in measurement won't significantly alter that control.

I live in Dallas, had ecofactor thermostat installed yesterday, my dsl connection speed plummeted from 2.5 plus Mbits down to .5 Mbits give or take with the ecofactor unit connected to my router.  Disconnected ecofactor unit and speed instantly returned. 

Performed connect/disconnect again with same results. 

My overall impression is that this project is half-baked, it was nice to program thermostat over the internet, possibly we could plug in unit when we are not using the internet?

It gets worse, ran the speed test (speedtest.net) five times consecutively with "Digi Connectport X2 for Smart Energy" connected to the router, with the following results: .13, .39, .23,. .16, and .17 Mbits download speed; ping and upload speeds appear unaffected (approximately 47 ms and .4 MBits, respectively).

Without the unit connected, download speeds for 5 consecutive tests were as follows: 2.55, 2.57, 2.55, 2.58, 2.54 Mbits download.

Something seems wrong . . .

It sucked up 80% of your internet bandwidth...yikes!

Ahhh, so the real savings may be far less money spent on Ebay. (since shopping will take so much longer)

I'm the Product Manager for EcoFactor and was forwarded a link to this board by a customer who saw the post about excessive bandwidth use.

Seth89 - Please contact our support organization at [email protected] or (888) 548-0455 regarding the issue that you're experiencing. We have tested hundreds of systems in our lab and the field and have not witnessed the behavior that you've described. - normally our service consumes less bandwidth than it takes to submit a post to this forum. Please be in touch so we can help identify and resolve the problem.