I'm not trying to upset anyone. And I understand the dealers have to make a profit. I'm just looking for the best WSHP I can find for the money. I'm really sold on the 7 series, but it comes at such a premium.

I'm not looking at the Daikin Mcquay unit any more, so that subject can be closed. But the best price I had found was something like $6800. You are correct, that would be an OTC price. The best quote I have received by a WF dealer is twice that. And yes, that is installed. So you are correct, I'm comparing apples to watermelons. :-)

I have a do-it-yourself company so I am certainly not put off with someone who wants sweat equity, but I am put off comparing a ship and forget phone support only to equipment professionally designed and provided with warranties. It is apples to road apples.....and not helpful to you either as it is farther from what your end cost will be than the installed price.

If you want to go over the counter you might have to settle for 2 stage. 2 stage units by Comfortaire (Climatemaster relable) may be more accessible to the DIY. If you want it installed, dealer has to worry about permits, sheet metal, electrical, tax, insurance, gas, warranty etc. which amounts to thousands of dollars though their actual margin may only be 10-15%, it is not hard to double the otc price of the unit.

So the point I don't want you to lose is you will have to pay for much of that anyway (permit, tax, sheetmetal etc.) or break laws to save a few bucks.

Then there is the value of a warranty.

Posted By t5800512 on 27 Sep 2013 09:54 AM
I have not looked at the Bosch. How do the prices compare?

Dual stage WF (5series) is comparable in performance price sounds level and quality to the new Bosch ( not the old Florida heat pump "Bosch"). Variable speed technology comes at a higher price, and no one offers it but WF, but once you put one of those in, you feel like you are doing a customer a disfavor not offerering them a 7 series. You think I am excited, the customers we put them in are even more thrilled about it.

I know you are looking at payback but don't forget that with the 7 Series you also get extreme comfort and almost no noise. What is that worth? How many people buy a BMW with leather heated seats that gives no payback but spend $3,000 more for those options? Why not do the same for your home but ALSO get added efficiency along with the comfort. I tell every one of my customers that they will not see a payback on the 7 Series and yet 9 out of 10 systems we sell upgrade from the 5 series to the 7 and we have installed 30 or so 7 series since they came out.

We usually see on average a $200 savings in operational costs of the 7 versus the 5 series. We upcharge about $4000 for the 7 series with the variable speed flowcenter, about $2800 after tax credits. $2800 more upfront versus $200 annual savings, now it depends on if you think that a 6-7% guaranteed ROI is good or bad. So I think there is an economical argument to be made.