Doesn't the cold lines steal heat from the returns being so close ?

Yes, thermal crosstalk does reduce performance. But only enough to worry about in borehole designs (where the entire supply and return are very tightly coupled). If you are very interested in loop design and performance details, you can buy software like "Ground Loop Design".

Posted By joe.ami on 18 Dec 2013 09:07 AM
Good Lord GADN,
This ain't our first rodeo, it's yours. If we can help, great. But I personnally grow weary answering the same question repeatedly.

What to seal the holes in the basement with is a great question and you intend to have six times as many holes because you have a better plan than what we do..........

Go to the local well driller supply they have all sorts of choices. A bag of bentonite employed with backfill material is cheap insurance.

I am with Joe here, you have very little understanding about the physical principles of geo geoexchange project, you should not attemp this yourself

Cmon guys! Don't give up on me yet.

Anyone try liquid nails for sealing concrete holes?

Epoxy is rather expensive.

Posted By GreenAnythingDotNet on 18 Dec 2013 04:15 PM
Cmon guys! Don't give up on me yet.

Anyone try liquid nails for sealing concrete holes?

Epoxy is rather expensive.

Pipe expands and contracts with temperature and keeps moving in the core drilled hole, thus keeps breaking most of the seals.
http://phoenixenergysupply.com/PES/Phoenix%20Energy%20Supply/Metraflex/Metraflex.html

For the wall penetrations, you can core drill your holes to snug fit a piece of 1-1/2" or 2" Sch 40 PVC pipe and insert that into the hole and glue in place with something like Loctite PL Premium polyurethane construction adhesive or even Gorilla Glue polyurethane if the pipe-to-hole clearance is small since the polyurethane expands slightly as it cures. Extend the PVC at least a few inches past the exterior side of the wall. Purchase and install a Fernco flexible pipe sleeve seal that will fit over the PVC pipe and the loop pipe and tighten the clamps.

http://www.fernco.com/plumbing/flexible-couplings/pipe-sleeve-seals

This is what I'm using for my ICF basement walls, but I already had the PVC pipe sleeves in place prior to pouring the concrete. I glued the PVC pipe to the ICF foam with Gorilla glue prior to the concrete pour.

Hows about 2-3 lines per drilled hole? 1.75" diameter and 3/4" lines.
Someone also suggested expanding foam for sealing concrete walls.

The pipes expand/contact that much?

I don't know whether it's the best way, but my installer made one hole in the cement block basement wall, ran all 8 pipes (4 loops) through the hole, used zip ties to keep the pipes together, and sprayed it full of Big Stuff foam. 2 other installers have since looked curiously at it and asked about it. But it hasn't leaked in 4 years (Fall 09).

Yea, that stuff u don't get on ya or it's a pain to remove.
Liquid nails concrete should be ok. My basement is 6' above ground. Water not a problem.

http://www.metacaulk.com/fire-stop-sealant.html

Interesting ......

$20 for a 10oz tube????

Looks like I'll consider ordering HDPE lines.

6 x 400' slinky loops
2300' straight lines total
Couplings and end caps for pressure testing
Just made a pressure gauge with ball valve. Hooks up to an air compressor fitting.
Approx. 750 linear feet per loop with 3/4" lines.
B&D 2-230 flow center 26-116m model.
Already bought a socket fusion gun and coring drill with diamond tip bits.
Bought some cement caulk
Have to find the cheapest alternative for Propylene Glycol coolant. Doesn't seem cheaper than about $15 per gallon. Sierra makes the green stuff yet kind of expensive. Thinking of calling Interstate Chemical to get rates on the fluid. Have bought Methanol from them before. Any suggestions ? Won't use Methanol due to the danger of toxic chemicals if a leak occurs, not to mention the flash point at 170 degrees.
Was there anything missed ?

"Cmon guys! Don't give up on me yet."

Then don't say something silly like:

"Won't use Methanol due to the danger of toxic chemicals if a leak occurs, not to mention the flash point at 170 degrees."

20% methanol brine is superior for heat transfer and is not considered a hazardous material nor will it flash it all.......or you can take your research over a pros advice and pay more for an inferior result....

"you have very little understanding about the physical principles of geo geoexchange project, you should not attemp this yourself"

Yes I'd get a local DIY friendly contractor.

Posted By GreenAnythingDotNet on 20 Dec 2013 06:14 PM
Looks like I'll consider ordering HDPE lines.

6 x 400' slinky loops
2300' straight lines total
Couplings and end caps for pressure testing
Just made a pressure gauge with ball valve. Hooks up to an air compressor fitting.
Approx. 750 linear feet per loop with 3/4" lines.
B&D 2-230 flow center 26-116m model.
Already bought a socket fusion gun and coring drill with diamond tip bits.
Bought some cement caulk
Have to find the cheapest alternative for Propylene Glycol coolant. Doesn't seem cheaper than about $15 per gallon. Sierra makes the green stuff yet kind of expensive. Thinking of calling Interstate Chemical to get rates on the fluid. Have bought Methanol from them before. Any suggestions ? Won't use Methanol due to the danger of toxic chemicals if a leak occurs, not to mention the flash point at 170 degrees.
Was there anything missed ?

You keep thinking cheap here, setup for failure. Like using the most inefficient flowcenter for your project. 26-116 pumps are inherently inefficient, when coupled with a geosystem running many thousand hours a year, will result in parasitic pumping costs. Your are citing Methanol properties, but not properties with Methanol diluted down to 20%. Good luck with the glycol, make sure you account for the dilution by the rust inhibitors. Good luck with the cement caulk, too.
Again, you are doing many rookie mistakes, and you don't seem to be willing to learn, thinking cheap cheap cheap. This combination is usually a recipe for disaster. Good luck.

Let's not get off subject with "Silly" insults, opinions or otherwise. Am accepting all the derogatory, rude and belittling comments as "COMPLIMENTS" ! Especially from you JOE.

Any alcohol is highly corrosive, especially when in contact with metals, certain plastics, neoprene gaskets, o-rings or mixed with water to any %. If you've ever made BioDiesel, everyone knows what I'm talking about.

Well then Joe, I guess we agree to disagree !

GADN, you don't seem to understand it is you that is being rude. You suggest that you "know better" than contributing pros here. Besides being rude it demonstrates supreme ignorance and zero desire to learn.
Most folks that really wanted help would be asking themselves "why do the pro's do it that way, there must be a good reason?" You on the other hand tell us why we are wrong or "agree to disagree".

Speaking of which, ("agreeing to disagree") I've offered facts. If you wish to disagree with facts, that's your call.

I've tried to gently tell you that you were being rude (Remember this?: Good Lord GADN, This ain't our first rodeo, it's yours. If we can help, great. But I personnally grow weary answering the same question repeatedly.). You are oblivious to your bad manners but suggest we are derogatory, rude and belittling.

Glycol wrecks havoc on pumps and threaded joints etc. and is inferior in heat transfer (so much so it derates the capacity of your heat pump). If you wish to use it, by all means, have at it. After all you know what's best.

As Doc said, "good luck."

The pros on this board probably have several hundred years of combined geo experience. I find it truly amusing when along comes dudley DIYer and wants to tell us how wrong we are??

Moving on from the insults.....You guys are too funny.....none taken....

Investigating Cryo-tek 100 coolant. Cheap, yet 70% PG with anti-corrosive additives for aluminum based heat exchangers. Anyone use this stuff or is it worth it just to get the cupronickel HE and go with Food Grade PG 100% ?

The mix ratio is 1:1 for down to 10 degrees freeze protection. Wonder what 25% solution would bring the temp up to.

"Investigating Cryo-tek 100 coolant. Cheap, yet 70% PG with anti-corrosive additives for aluminum based heat exchangers. Anyone use this stuff or is it worth it just to get the cupronickel HE and go with Food Grade PG 100% ? "