Rainwater Harvesting System, North Central Florida
Last Post 08 Apr 2010 08:12 AM by buck3647. 34 Replies.
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arkie6User is Offline
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19 Sep 2009 11:12 PM
Regarding a well, if you have sandy soil and a high water table, you don't even need to have a well dug.  Just buy a 2" well point (aka "sand point') and the necessary steel pipe, and this can be driven directly into the ground. Google [driven water well point] for more info if interested.

Here is a link also:  Driven Point Wells pdf




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20 Sep 2009 08:32 AM
Posted By arkie6 on 09/19/2009 11:12 PM
Regarding a well, if you have sandy soil and a high water table, you don't even need to have a well dug.  Just buy a 2" well point (aka "sand point') and the necessary steel pipe, and this can be driven directly into the ground. Google [driven water well point] for more info if interested.

Here is a link also:  Driven Point Wells pdf




Interesting, but risky; Florida has just recovered from an extended doubt and the water table has risen quite a bit. I would be afraid if we did a Driven Point Well and experienced another drought we would literally be left high and dry.


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20 Sep 2009 08:49 AM
Posted By arkie6 on 09/19/2009 9:57 PM
Posted By DaveS on 09/18/2009 3:04 PM
Originally we thought we would be all set with a 6000 to 8000 gallon below ground rainwater harvesting system, but we recently got our lot perk test report stating the water is only a few feet down and that fill will need to be brought in to raise the slab foundation of our new home and that the septic will need to be in a mound. This leaves me to believe the same holds true that the rainwater cistern. Our lot is large enough but flat and mounds don't work (unless on Dolly P) and above ground tanks are ugly.

Does anyone know of an above ground 6000 to 8000 tank that is not an eyesore?

Is this now becoming an engineering nightmare that will add a lot of construction costs to put an in ground rainwater harvesting system?[/quote]
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Any help will be greatly appreciated.[/quote]
 [/quote]
DaveS



[/quote][/quote][/quote]
Why consider an underground rainwater storage tank when your water table is so high?  Why not just have a shallow well dug and well pump installed and use the earth as your water storage tank?  Just be sure to locate the well far enough from your septic system to remain in compliance with applicable codes (and common sense).


I hear you but the whole idea is to contain rainwater to conserve and preserve ground water in times of drought. The water table is up now because we are currently over the drought that was a really big problem just a few years back in Florida. Our current water table is a recent development. In a drought situation is when the rainwater harvesting will make the difference. Rather than use well water, when water is scarce we can use the stored rainwater for toilet flushing, laundry and maybe even, if filtered properly, drinking.

DaveS 


buck3647User is Offline
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20 Sep 2009 02:41 PM
David
Perhaps I can of help for your situation.  
I represent Sun-Mar Compost toilet systems and by installing a compost toilet you not only solve your problem of drainfield septic tank but also add to preserving the environment.
Unless you feel there is an upcoming major drought I am not sure why you would need such a great quantity of water, normally 500 gallons is sufficient.
The monolithic concrete dome I built in Inverness has a gray water system with compost toilet.
Gray water will water the lawn the compost will fertilize the plants.
www.safedomes.com

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20 Sep 2009 03:53 PM
Posted By buck3647 on 09/20/2009 2:41 PM
David
Perhaps I can of help for your situation.  
I represent Sun-Mar Compost toilet systems and by installing a compost toilet you not only solve your problem of drainfield septic tank but also add to preserving the environment.
Unless you feel there is an upcoming major drought I am not sure why you would need such a great quantity of water, normally 500 gallons is sufficient.
The monolithic concrete dome I built in Inverness has a gray water system with compost toilet.
Gray water will water the lawn the compost will fertilize the plants.
www.safedomes.com


Not sure my wife is ready for composting toilets. But it sure is interesting. Seems like a little extra work, but you get rich compost for the garden. Bet no one is going to want tomatoes from our garden if we use that system though.

DaveS


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20 Sep 2009 05:23 PM
Posted By DaveS on 09/20/2009 3:53 PM
Posted By buck3647 on 09/20/2009 2:41 PM
David
Perhaps I can of help for your situation.  
I represent Sun-Mar Compost toilet systems and by installing a compost toilet you not only solve your problem of drainfield septic tank but also add to preserving the environment.
Unless you feel there is an upcoming major drought I am not sure why you would need such a great quantity of water, normally 500 gallons is sufficient.
The monolithic concrete dome I built in Inverness has a gray water system with compost toilet.
Gray water will water the lawn the compost will fertilize the plants.
www.safedomes.com


Not sure my wife is ready for composting toilets. But it sure is interesting. Seems like a little extra work, but you get rich compost for the garden. Bet no one is going to want tomatoes from our garden if we use that system though.

DaveS

OK, OK the wife is interested and so am I. But I need to ask if a Central Flush Composting Toilet System will work in our situation? Our new home is one floor on a slab. Because of the high water table we will be bringing in fill to raise the slab foundation, so we will have some hight for gravity flow. The Sun-Mar site photos shows a crawl space and second floor installations. Can the collection unit be outside, ground level in North Central Florida? Our plans have a Master Bath a Guest Bath and a 1/2 Bath near the laundry room. Can the system have 3 toilets going to one collection station that far apart?

Thanks,
DaveS 


toddmUser is Offline
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24 Sep 2009 11:01 AM
Dunno why you couldn't bury a rainwater tank, high water table or no. It's not like the tank would contaminate anything, or that seepage into tank would be a problem either. As Brock says, it could pop out of the ground, but that never happened to me in Texas over a 20 year period. The only lessons I learned is: a: when it rains in Tx it pours, thus limiting its utility; and b, fill the thing the minute you drop it in the hole if you don't want to find it floating after an overnight storm (see 'a' above.)
Your soil will be different, of course. I'd ask your septic contractor if it can be done. Chances are he'll be burying storage and dose tanks for your sand mound.
BTW, I used gray water in this house by plumbing it separately and using two tanks in series so that the gray water tank, if it wasn't pumped in a timely manner, overflowed into the black water tank and thus into the drainfield. My lawn was fragrant for an hour or two after sprinkling, but it was very, very green. Dunno what the state would say about it today, but some states bless drip irrigation after filtration: http://www.premiertech.com/ecoflo/en/
In yet another approach, these folks claim to cut water use by 30 to 40 percent by plumbing gray water separately, as I did, treating it and using it a second time to flush commodes. http://www.bracsystems.com/home.html
I'm splitting the waste system in my new house even though I don't expect water problems. It's no biggie until you add drywall.




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24 Sep 2009 03:42 PM

It's not that the septic can't be in ground it's the cost incurred in doing so and local building code are pretty strict on anything out of the ordinary. We will put the septic and rainwater systems above ground and landscape on or around them. We have enough room.



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25 Sep 2009 11:11 AM
When you say the septic will be above ground, you realize that a typical sand mound installation has at least one and possibly two buried tanks, right? Those tanks will be larger than normal if the mound requires regulated doses. Mound systems cost twice as much as conventional septic systems. Alternatives like Ecoflo cost more yet, but are worth exploring in challenging conditions because they work better, assuming adequate maintenance.
A cistern, it seems to me, is riskier than a well for what you want to do. If it doesn't rain, an 8,000 gallon tank is empty in three or four weeks. (100 gallons/person/day plus 1,000 gallons/month for the pool.) A long drought would result in brief interludes of very expensive, site-treated drinking water, and far less benefit to the environment than the same money spent on reducing water use.
There is no substitute for consulting local people who understand your climate, soil and laws.


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25 Sep 2009 02:38 PM
Posted By toddm on 09/25/2009 11:11 AM
When you say the septic will be above ground, you realize that a typical sand mound installation has at least one and possibly two buried tanks, right? Those tanks will be larger than normal if the mound requires regulated doses. Mound systems cost twice as much as conventional septic systems. Alternatives like Ecoflo cost more yet, but are worth exploring in challenging conditions because they work better, assuming adequate maintenance.
A cistern, it seems to me, is riskier than a well for what you want to do. If it doesn't rain, an 8,000 gallon tank is empty in three or four weeks. (100 gallons/person/day plus 1,000 gallons/month for the pool.) A long drought would result in brief interludes of very expensive, site-treated drinking water, and far less benefit to the environment than the same money spent on reducing water use.
There is no substitute for consulting local people who understand your climate, soil and laws.

You are obviously more of an expert than I, but dollars I do understand. My contractor told me it would cost 15K or more for and engineered in-ground and the mound system was around 4K. Not to worry, I am working with local people who understand climate, soil and laws. That was never my concern as I believe our build team is top notch. I'm just hanging out here looking to educate myself on alternatives and costs.  Our home is being build with less water usage in mind, duel flush toilets, low flow plumbing etc. You are entitled to your opinion but using rainwater for toilet flushing, laundry and pool filling is more GREEN than using well water and a back-up source of potable water can't hurt in a pinch.

DaveS


toddmUser is Offline
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25 Sep 2009 07:56 PM
No offense intended. Just trying to give you the benefit of my 20 years of living with a cistern, the upshot of which is that nothing opens the heavens more reliably than a full tank. The advantage of a composting toilet is that you don't need celestial cooperation. My point about a well is simply that you should trust a cistern less.
You're right to do your own research because builders don't stray far from what they've always done. Even if your build team is top notch, you want to approach this like a nuclear arms treaty: trust but verify. On the last point, are you sure your builder didn't say $4k extra for a sand mound? I'd pay $14k for a pumped mound system in Pa and perhaps $16k for an Ecoflo. I doubt that $4k would get me the materials.


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26 Sep 2009 02:32 PM
Posted By toddm on 09/25/2009 7:56 PM
No offense intended. Just trying to give you the benefit of my 20 years of living with a cistern, the upshot of which is that nothing opens the heavens more reliably than a full tank. The advantage of a composting toilet is that you don't need celestial cooperation. My point about a well is simply that you should trust a cistern less.
You're right to do your own research because builders don't stray far from what they've always done. Even if your build team is top notch, you want to approach this like a nuclear arms treaty: trust but verify. On the last point, are you sure your builder didn't say $4k extra for a sand mound? I'd pay $14k for a pumped mound system in Pa and perhaps $16k for an Ecoflo. I doubt that $4k would get me the materials.

No offense took. My contractor hasn't come to me with suggestions on the septic system yet and the pricing was given verbally and I may have missed something in the translation. I tried to check into the composting toilet and didn't get my questions answered on this forum or by the local dealer. To be honest, I haven't connected with the one person at the local dealer who knows anything about the composting toilet system yet. We are not against it but without answers we will just skip that and go with low-water usages duel flush toilets.

Trust but verify is right where I'm at. Another plus in our team's column is everyone is interested in looking at new ideas. We work as at team to separate the wheat from the chafe.

DaveS


HoowoodUser is Offline
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28 Sep 2009 10:29 AM
Check this They have flat tank system specially for your needs http://www.rewatec.de or http://www.graf-water.com


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28 Sep 2009 10:43 AM
Posted By Hoowood on 09/28/2009 10:29 AM
Check this They have flat tank system specially for your needs http://www.rewatec.de or http://www.graf-water.com

Thanks

Interesting but I'm looking for something available in the US, preferable in North Central Florida and a company that sells, and supports the complete system.

DaveS



buck3647User is Offline
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08 Apr 2010 08:12 AM
New Florida health law states that sink water is no longer gray water and classified as black water.  The dome built in Inverness was to be off the grid using compost toilet system no septic or drainfield, this can no longer be done.
Throughout the world above fiberglass tanks are used to store rain water, black tanks for heated water.
With the water table in Florida it will be difficult to store water below ground unless a concrete or fiberglass tank is buried.


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