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Window Efficiency
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egouin
Basic Member
Posts:126
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| 25 Jan 2010 09:40 AM |
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Posted By Kori Fox on 01/25/2010 9:35 AM
However they do have a long lead time of 6 - 7 weeks but if you plan accordingly it shouldn't be a problem.
If you would like to contact me visit our website for information. www.medallionindustries.com
Kori Regarding lead times... Alpen used to make every window to order (no such thing as a "standard" size). That being said, I am of the opinion that a 6-7 week lead time is not overly offensive. Just be sure to plan for it. Ed
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| http://www.GouinGreen.com<br>Superinsulated SIP/Modular House (HERS = 30)<br>GSHP w/SCW, ERV, Passive Solar, Solar HW |
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Kori Fox
New Member
Posts:7
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| 25 Jan 2010 09:56 AM |
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That is true they do make every window to order and will make any size. That being said the plant in CO (formerly Alpen) currently makes the fiberglass 725, 925, and 1125 series windows. The vinyl lines are made in IL, and PN. They are committed to streamlining their manufacturing processes to achieve faster, more reliable lead times. |
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altovintner
New Member
Posts:33
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| 25 Jan 2010 11:02 AM |
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Hello Kori. I very much appreciate that you took time to share with me information about Serious windows. ...............
I am strongly leaning to getting Serious 725 series fiberglass windows for our future house. Hence, I am performing my due diligence research so that I am as informed as possible.
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Be Well,
Steve |
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| Eager to learn new things here in the foothills of the mountains of the Lincoln National Forest of New Mexico. |
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jerkylips
Basic Member
Posts:359
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| 26 Jan 2010 03:57 PM |
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I just stumbled across a window I wasn't familiar with - Northstar Windows. They are Canadian made, but sold here. The #'s on their site look pretty good - maybe not AS good as Serious, but approaching them. These are vinyl windows, not fiberglass, but are triple pane & look like a good option. I talked to a woman at a dealer in MI today - she said that they are coming in within about 15% of most bids they see for Andersen or Pella, with much better performance.
I'm still looking at Serious, but once we get the plans finalized & price out windows, if the Serious come in too high I may check into these.
Here's a link to the performance #'s..
http://www.northstarwindows.com/html/tech_pdf/SL_EnergyRatingsUSA_07.pdf
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thesidingguy
New Member
Posts:3
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| 16 Feb 2010 09:30 AM |
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Simonton windows are the BEST!!! |
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Lee Dodge
Advanced Member
Posts:714
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| 16 Feb 2010 12:50 PM |
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I considered Serious Windows 725 windows for my house at a high elevation in Colorado, which is a heating-only environment. I liked the fact that they had the technology for gas fill at high elevations, that most other U.S. manufacturers do not have. The subdivision requires single-hung or double-hung windows, so there is some loss there in infiltration and U-factor. I compared the Serious Windows with the builders standard windows, a vinyl, double-pane, low-e window with U=0.3, SHGC=0.21. I found that I could special order higher solar gain windows from the same manufacturer with U=0.35 (or maybe higher), SHGC=0.55. There is a spec for maximum U of 0.35 without a struggle, and I am not sure these windows would meet it. The third option was U.S. made triple-pane windows with low or high SHGC, namely U=0.30, SHGC=0.28, and U=0.32, SHGC=0.49. The specs for the Serious Windows were for their 725 double hung in low and high SHGC, namely U=0.19, SHGC=0.22, and U=0.24, SHGC=0.41.
Using RESFEN, developed by Lawrence Berkeley Labs from Dept. of Energy and available free, I got the following results:
Builder standard U=0.3, SHGC=0.21 44.7 millionBTU yearly
Builder standard but high SHGC on S,E,W (U=0.3, SHGC=0.21 N, U=0.35, SHGC=0.55 other) 35.8 millonBTU
Serious Windows low SHGC U=0.19, SHGC=0.22 38.6 millionBTU
Serious Windows low SHGC N only, high SHGC S,E,W (U=0.19, SHGC=0.22 N, U=0.24, SHGC=0.41) 34.6 millionBTU
Triple-pane low SHGC N only, high SHGC S,E,W (U=0.30, SHGC=0.28 N, U=0.32, SHGC=0.49 other) 29.9 millionBTU
For MY application that is heating only, high SHGC is more important than low U-factor. This assumes that the passive solar gain can be stored rather than simply overheating the house and being dumped. In my case, U-factor is even less important since I will pull insulating shades at night. I also designed in an overhang on the south side to offset the high SHGC in summer. This type of analysis is free, objective, and clear for heating-only climates. Not so easy for predominately cooling or mixed heating and cooling, but still worth going through.
In my case, I chose the triple-pane windows with the mix of low and high SHGC |
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Lee Dodge,
<a href="http://www.ResidentialEnergyLaboratory.com">Residential Energy Laboratory,</a>
in a net-zero source energy modified production house
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NelsonL
New Member
Posts:14
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| 03 Mar 2010 08:36 AM |
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Lee,
Since you are interested in max heat gain through your windows, all of your windows should be high SHGC and low U, including those on the north side. See the article at this link:
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...tter-walls |
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altovintner
New Member
Posts:33
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| 03 Mar 2010 10:12 AM |
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Hello Lee Dodge. I think you are heading in the right direction for your windows. As I ponder our future house plans, I find similarities between our project and yours. For example, we are in S. Central New Mexico at 7,100 ft. and 5500 - 6000 HDD. (Although this winter has behaved more like 7000+ HDD!)
....................
I have run all kinds of numbers through various programs and online calculators, but have relied on my own Excel based custom model that mostly follows James Kachadorian's formulas from his book "The Passive Solar House." To make a long story short I am getting numbers in the same pattern that you are getting. The general drift is that SHGCs trump low U values for my climate.
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I visited a window store in Santa Fe that carries Serious Windows and also the German Unilux windows. It appears that if I go with windows other than the big box outfits like Andersen, my window cost would rise by 85 to 100%. That investment would have a longer payback period than I would like, but I am still drawn to the better windows, nevertheless. FYI, I am designing a "Not-Yet-Ready-For-PassivHaus" 2300 - 2400 sq. ft. home with 6 to 7% South glazing, monolithic slab, with what I refer to as reasonable, above average R values and tightness.
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Regards,
Steve
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| Eager to learn new things here in the foothills of the mountains of the Lincoln National Forest of New Mexico. |
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jerkylips
Basic Member
Posts:359
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| 03 Mar 2010 10:38 AM |
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Lee,
I came to very similar conclusions as you - SHGC definitely made more of an impact than u-values. For a point of reference, we're at 8000 HDD here. To take it a step farther, you should look at actual heating costs based on your utility rates. I found a calculator that also shows dollars as well as btu's. It may have been resfens, but I don't remember. I also used on on builditsolar.com .
What I found is that the btu's of heat loss was only part of the story. When I looked at the actual dollar amounts that I could save by getting the loss down by a couple million btu's per year was not nearly as much as expected. It was getting to a point where spending thousands more on windows was saving me $100/year or so. I actually went backwards a little on the window package, shifting more of the budget to the wall insulation. That seems to give more bang for the buck.
The windows we've chosen are (roughly) .30 u-values and .40 SHGC. In the walls we're doing 1" of spray foam in the cavities to air seal it, followed up with R-19 batts. On the exterior of the sheathing we're doing 1" of polyiso foam, which gives an additional R6 and a thermal break to stop that short circuiting through the studs. In the attic we're doing a thin coat of spray foam over all of the recessed cans, top plates, etc., to air seal those, then R50-60 in the attic (some ceilings are vaulted, some are flat). Also, we're doing 2" of foam board on the outside of the basement walls and under the slab.
There are all sorts of calculators to show heat loss for specific products (windows, wall insulation, foundation) but unfortunately I have yet to find a good one that factors in EVERYTHING so that you can see which make the most impact. The manual j does it, but that's $500 if you want to buy it yourself.
Last thing - some of the windows you mentioned have SHGC well over .50. Are those clear glass? I don't know that I've seen any low-e windows that high. If it is clear glass, you may want to reconsider. Low e blocks out uv radiation, which will cause furniture & flooring to fade over time. |
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Lee Dodge
Advanced Member
Posts:714
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| 03 Mar 2010 11:22 AM |
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Nelson-
RESFEN confirms that for my application, the year-round heating costs are reduced by 0.9% by using high SHGC windows on the north side, or by 1.4% if I account for the thermally insulating shades that I am planning on using. However, I assume that added heat would only be available in the "shoulder season" (spring and fall), while causing slighly increased losses in the middle of winter, as your referenced article states. I am guessing that I may not be able to use the heat during the shoulder season, as I hopefully will have plenty of passive solar then. Interesting point though.
Steve-
Yes, sounds like we are on a similar path. Concerning your desire to spend money on windows that maybe cannot be supported by your calculations, I think some of us may desire that "BMW feel" of buying what we can brag on, rather than what the calculations are telling us without the emotional slant.
Jerkylips-
Yes, both REFSEN and HEED (both free) provide energy costs in BTUs and dollars. I agree with your comments that after you plug the big holes, it becomes more difficult to financially justify technologies that provide return on investment after more than 20 years. I have spent more than I can justify from a pure accounting standpoint to get a house that should be net-zero source energy. After a while, it is just a technical game to see if you can get to zero net energy use, damn the costs!
Another approach to doing energy caculations that separates the conduction and infiltration losses is to use REScheck, also free (is there a patten here?) to compute the whole house conductivity losses from its value of U*A (U=conductivity, A=area of each section of house) for the whole house, multiplied by the degree days per year (or per month for monthly analysis) to get conduction losses, and then add in the infiltration losses based on estimated infiltration rate (typically volume/time) converted into mass/time times heat capacity of air times heating degree days. Infiltration is difficult to estimate, both for programs like HEED and for calculating it yourself, but a blower door test can be helpful, then using the approximation natural ACH = 1/20 * ACH at 50 Pa.
Thanks for the ideas,
Lee |
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Lee Dodge,
<a href="http://www.ResidentialEnergyLaboratory.com">Residential Energy Laboratory,</a>
in a net-zero source energy modified production house
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sbacon
New Member
Posts:2
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| 31 Jan 2011 01:16 PM |
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I had posted a long and detailed note about Fibertec and their service. Fortunately, someone read the post and called the right person at Fibertec. They got on the ball and did everything they could to rectify their poor service and turn it around into a positive experience. This included talking to the service personnel and giving them some pointers and training. The president of the company personally called me twice to make sure everything was going as planned. My service issue took a long time to resolve, but once the ball got rolling on the right track, everything was completed in about two weeks. Thanks, Fibertec. You have won my confidence back. |
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gsorenson
New Member
Posts:3
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| 13 Sep 2012 10:49 PM |
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I want to share my poor experience with Fibertec. I was initially quoted a 6-8 week delivery on my windows. I explained that timing was important since I was building the house with my brother who was traveling across the country to assist me. The representative then told me they would try to deliver in 6.5 weeks. Well, 7 weeks passed without a word from them so I inquired about the status of my delivery. I was told that there was a quality control issue with their glass. I started getting desprate for windows after 8 weeks and furious after 9. They continuously strung me along promising "next week" as a delivery. After 12 weeks they were finally loaded on a truck (at a premium delivery fee) and delivered a day later than I paid expedited delivery for. This story has lots more details. Fibertec will blame their suppliers, plant holidays, shippers, YOU for thier lack of performance. Lawyers got involved when I told them that my help had gone home and that I was no longer renting the $3000/month fork lift in which to unload their windows with so therefore I did not want them.
I was treated rudely. They continually failed to honestly keep me informed..in fact they never once contacted me until they were trying to collect my certified check...then let me tell you, they were relentless.
The windows frames had been setting around the factory for over a month clearly getting shuffled around a lot. The sales rep promised me some touch-up paint which still hasn't shown up.
The windows do seem to be pretty solid. Definitely heavy. The weather stripping on one peeled off when I opened a casement. I haven't made that warranty claim yet. I will repost my experience once I contact them. (At this point I'm pretty sure they will blame the weather stripping supplier or the trucker or the installer)
In hind sight, I don't care how good the windows are. Unless you are a big contractor with other projects to work on while your project is delayed for a month+, being rained on and damaged, STAY AWAY!
Statements from the company that customer service changes made in 2009 have improved the situation indicate that more changes are due or the situation was absolutely attrocious back then. |
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sbacon
New Member
Posts:2
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| 14 Sep 2012 02:01 AM |
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gsorenson - I can only hope that someone at Fibertec will read your post and rectify this situation. Repeated calls from me to Fibertec did not make a difference in my situation prior to my post here and on one other similar forum. After my posts on two forums, I was contacted quickly and my issue was resolved within a short time. I hope it will be the same for you.
Who was your salesperson? |
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[email protected]
New Member
Posts:25
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| 14 Sep 2012 02:38 AM |
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I went with seriouswindows.com vinyl - they've been installed for over 2 years now and are holding up very well. They were a pleasure to deal with both corporate and the rep the provided - Jon Masterson - Logic Window Systems. We had a minor problem on the install and they where very responsive in making sure it got resolved. |
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