tzolk
New Member
Posts:11
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| 20 Feb 2010 01:02 PM |
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I have been pricing Andersen 400 and Lincoln for our upcoming new construction. Both have similar pricing and performance specs. I have looked up close at the frames for the double hung and the Lincolns look and feel more robust, more wood than Andersen on the Aluminum clad. Id prefer Aluminum clad over the vinyl coated exterior that is Andersen although Andersen seems to be a great company. Any thoughts? Cant seem to find any real comparison opinions on here or on the web.
All the Best,
Todd Z
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jerkylips
Basic Member
Posts:359
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| 20 Feb 2010 08:41 PM |
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when we started looking at windows, we started with andersen. they are well-made & very nice looking, but the performance really isn't very good. They have very limited glazing options, so if you want/need to vary the u-values & heat gains to the different orientations of the house, you can't really do it.
You mentioned exterior cladding, but not interior finish. If you want wood interiors, you may be a little more limited. We are doing white trim inside, so white vinyl worked for us. Recently I've been looking at weathershield windows. They have a low-e coating that gives .30 u-value & .40 shgc, and another that gives approx .24 & .27. For us, that works well to use the higher solar gain windows on the south & the lower u-value on the rest of the house.
If you're ok with vinyl & are still interested in andersen, take a look at silverline (silverlinewindows.com). They're made by Andersen & give some additional glazing options. (plus, they're cheaper!) |
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greentree
Advanced Member
Posts:587
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| 21 Feb 2010 07:12 PM |
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I have installed Lincoln windows. The quality was ok as far as jamb construction, reveal consistency and the cladding. The flanges however were junk, made of vinyl and on some of the windows were pieced together with a butt joint on the sides which is a huge no-no. I didn't supply them but apparently the price was really good over comparables. |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 22 Feb 2010 08:32 PM |
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Todd;
My daughter who lives in NW Pa, bought an 11 year old house with Lincoln windows about a year ago ..... about half of the insulated glazing has gone bad and out of warranty. I would compare glazing warrantys between the two |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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tzolk
New Member
Posts:11
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| 25 Feb 2010 01:06 PM |
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Thankyou for all the information. Was looking on Consumer reports, Andersen, Pella pro-line and Marvin were all rated excellent. I may go with Andersen 400's. Not sure about the Pella and Marvin looks to be a bit much. We plan on doing the wood interior/ pine windows btw. I would think Andersen would have a better warranty and customer service than Lincoln due to their history. Im not partial to any brand just want the best window for our non deep pocket budget/ new home construction. I really liked the Jen-weld at HD. The aluminum cladding is nice. For what ever reason, on Consumer reports, they rated POOR for the cold air leakage test. Heard mixed opinions on their quality. Any favorites among you guys?
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jerkylips
Basic Member
Posts:359
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| 25 Feb 2010 01:25 PM |
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tzolk -
I think I posted a reply on this thread earlier. I have a couple thoughts on this, but just so you know, I'm NOT a contractor, so this is just my opinion/observation based on the research I've done over the last couple years.
First (this is a bit off topic), I'm NOT a fan of Consumer Reports. It seems that overall, they put a lot of weight on less than important factors. Also, they pretty much only compare the very big names. Not saying this is the case, but if they only compare Andersen, Pella, & Marvin, & they all suck, then all you learn is which one sucks the least.
OK, that said, Andersen was my first choice when I started this process - the 400 series, as a matter of fact. What I found is that they make very nice looking windows that are well-built - but the performance is lacking. The average consumer is more concerned with color & what kind of grills they can get than u-values & SHGC, so that's where they seem to have focused. The 400 series only has one glazing option, as far as I can tell - & it's very middle of the road.
From the performance side, you can absolutely do better for the money. The tradeoff might be aesthetics (vinyl interior vs wood, for example). You can get both performance & aesthetics, but you're going to pay a premium for it. As an example, we got a bid for a weathershield window that has good numbers (u-values around .24 and SHGC up to .42), fiberglass frames, and wood interiors. The windows for our house (2000 sq ft ranch with quite a few windows on first floor plus several in the walkout basement) were just under $15,000.
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tzolk
New Member
Posts:11
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| 25 Feb 2010 05:36 PM |
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Weathershield. Thanks for the tip. I'll check into those. Looks like the place that gave me the quote for the Lincolns also sells those. I take it you bought the Fiberglass clad wood with Zo-e-shield glass? Those look nice!!! I have wiggle room for pricing. Im looking at 20 windows about 37"x50" rough opening size and 2 casements a bit bigger as far as windows go. So far the Lincolns come out to about 13k with SDL grills.
All the Best,
Todd Z |
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jerkylips
Basic Member
Posts:359
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| 25 Feb 2010 05:57 PM |
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Todd - I just sent you a (longwinded) PM on this - take a look... |
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highport
New Member
Posts:1
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| 05 Mar 2010 05:13 PM |
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Every window company has their positive & negative aspects. Weather Shield has Zo-E Shield glass that is very impressive. They do not charge extra for dimensional sizes, which is good for replacement. The new fiberglass window looks good, but it has not been on the market for very long. Lincoln windows are very good & the price is right. They do not charge much more for 366-Low-E, but dimensional sizing adds quite a bit. I like their W-V series Vinyl Clad Casement. Even though there are only 3 exterior colors to chose from, the units & the price are very good. |
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BRINDASBABY
New Member
Posts:26
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| 05 Mar 2010 05:43 PM |
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As a window dealer that used to sell Peachtree Windows in the early part of the decade before and after they got bought by WeatherShield. I feel the quality of the product and the service from the company deteriated greatly after the change in company ownership. We stopped selling the line in mid 2004 and went with Windsor Windows and we have been very happy with since. We still are able to price Peachtree Windows (same window as WeatherShield just with a Peachtree logo) and compared to Windsor, WeatherShield is a lot higher. Both offer glass that meets the tax credit. But for us the quality and service after the sell is much better with Windsor. For example our selling price of a 3'0 x 6'0 700 series Clad Casement 1-lite w/ ZoEShield 7 glass 4 9/16" jamb w/ screen is $625.60 for Peachtree. The Windsor Pinnacle Series Casement window we carry now is priced at $517.55. |
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Thank you,
Matthew Burr
Window & Door Buyer
Village Home Center
4650 Hwy 7 North
Hot Springs Village, AR 71909
Office: 1-501-984-6074
Fax: 1-501-984-6073
Email: [email protected] |
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MajWingDing
New Member
Posts:1
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| 08 Jun 2010 08:47 AM |
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Yes I have install Lincoln Windows in my own house The first month I started having troubles with the casement windows I dont know how many times they came out and just looked at them .the rep.didnt know what to do ,He did see they were leaking air and were mis-fitted from the factory .The thermo-panes were inside out the low e part was on the outside of the thermos So now after 15 years of leakage the glass is bad .If I could do it over again I would have spent the extra money and went with a relieable copany |
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bobarchitect39
New Member
Posts:26
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| 14 Jun 2010 02:56 PM |
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Can't go wrong with Lincoln windows for sure. Not only do they function nearly flawlessly, but most importantly they look great too. I recently purchased them (within the last 2 years) and had them installed and have no complaints about them. Let me know if you want to know anything else (where you can find them, pricing, etc.)
Good luck!!!
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Athe WindowGrl
New Member
Posts:1
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| 09 Jul 2010 09:29 AM |
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Lincoln is a small company, family owned and has great customer service. Their customer service is mostly through their distributors though. Lincoln does need it's share of adjustments after they are installed at times, but if you have a certified installer from the dealer then you really shouldn't run into any issues. If you live within the Southest, they have a wonderful Service Guy, that I sware carries a magic wand in his back pocket, he can fix anything. As a distributor I think they are wonderful to work with. I recently came across a homeowner with Lincoln windows and doors and they needed to replace the door slab of on unit because of broken glass, and change out a door slab to have a bottom panel to add a dogge door. They didn't have any records of the original purchase and the original distributor had gone belly-up, so after having the Lincoln Rep out to the house and a few confirming trips from our outside sales rep., Lincoln was able to find the original order. The house was originally built in 1998, where most things were still done by paper, not computer. They were able to dig this order out of the Archived files and find all of the information needed to ensure the correct door slab sizes. We had a certified installer go out and install the replacements doors and make a few adjustments to the old frame, since they no long make the door slabs from 1998 and the customers are very thrilled.
My personal opinion...Lincoln is much better than Anderson as a product and many other manufacturers out there and I am happy to be one of their distributors. |
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kam4182
New Member
Posts:1
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| 22 Jul 2013 01:02 PM |
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We are replacing our Liincoln windows after 13 years. We made a mistake putting them in our house, it is a sore topic with my husband. Most if all the window cranks came apart early on, we were able to get replacements through customer service. However, after 11 years and out of warranty, of course, the seals have gone bad on 6 windows, there is mold like objects growing in between the panes which makes the windows very dirty looking, they can not be cleaned. The silicon is sloppy with hugh globs which you can see in between the panes. The silicon got squished outside which you have to cut off with a razor, the edges are plain sloppy. We notices a haze forming at the bottom of the windows. Anyways, do not buy them if you want windows to last. We will be watching this web-site and doing a lot more research for our future window purchase. All of our Lincoln windows were custom made. We plan on replacing them over two years, first the bottom half of the house and then the top half. We are looling at greater then 27K to replace the all Lincoln windows in our house. Our biggest problem was the breaking seals and the sloppy silicon work. |
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windowrookie
Basic Member
Posts:104
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| 23 Jul 2013 10:28 AM |
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Kam4182
Seems to me, that you are jumping the gun. The squished silicone though unsightly is purposely done in order to ensure that there is some squeeze out. Companies do that so they know there is enough silicone to prevent the windows from leaking. The issue with the sealed units is a larger but manageable problem. Did you consider just replacing the sealed units. You can try contacting Lincoln directly and see what the price would be. Or just purchase the glass from them and have a handyman or contractor, glazer do the replacing.
If the windows still operate and seal properly, my advice is to change the glass.
If you are set on replacing windows and longevity is your main criteria, fiberglass windows is the way to go.
Wish you luck. |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 23 Jul 2013 03:52 PM |
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The window design was doomed to fail from the start. The minute they used silicone at the factory to seal the panes of glass to the framing structure, it was doomed to fail. You have two dissimilar surfaces both contracting and expanding at different rates, every day, for months and years. What do you think happens to silicone caulk when it goes through that? The silicone seal fails and breaks causing the windows to leak and condense.
A properly engineered window would have a rubber/EPDM/neoprene seal between the glazing and framing. The window glazing would also be suspended between the framing so that the two dissimilar materials can freely move and expand on there own without compromising any seals, since the seals are flexible and allow for movement, unlike silicone caulk.
My current home has the same stupid design with silicone caulk between the vinyl and glazing. Guess what? I've had 6 windows fail already just after 3 years. The glass expands at its own rate and the vinyl does what it wants. How long before the silicone bond breaks? Maybe a year or two, depends on the climate.
You get what you pay for and Lincoln Windows have a bad reputation and they are designed to fail from day one.
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windowrookie
Basic Member
Posts:104
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| 23 Jul 2013 10:32 PM |
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Lbear, may I ask when heel beading a window what material is used? Perhaps you are confused as silicone and caulk are two separate distinctly different materials. Here's a link for you...http://www.ehow.com/facts_5777488_difference-between-caulk-sealant_.html or http://voices.yahoo.com/silicone-vs-polyurethane-caulk-whats-difference-8952959.html?cat=6 However there certain silicones that should never be in contact with the IGU's spacer seal as this will cause them to fail. You have two dissimilar surfaces both contracting and expanding at different rates, every day, for months and years. This is exactly why fiberglass will outlast any other window material. Vinyl expands and contract 8 times more than the glass/fiberglass therefore must use compression to glaze the windows. Over time the vinyl will distort and lose its compression. Fiberglass is sealed directly to the frame due to the low and virtually same expansion and contraction of the glass and frame. This will allow the window to remain airtight over a lengthy period of time. A poor performing window will be just that regardless of framing material. However back to Kam4182 problem. If you think the windows are still in good condition besides sloppy silicone and failed IGU's then I would recommend replacing them shouldn't cost you more than 1-2k depending where you are and if you can get a reasonable warranty on the workmanship and glass. I haven't heard you complain that the windows are drafty or structurally deficient just their aesthetical appearance is poor. BTW, what material are your frames made out of? |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 24 Jul 2013 04:07 AM |
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Each window frame material has its pros and cons. Even so, not all fiberglass windows are equal, some manufacturers are better, some are worse. The same with wood, vinyl, aluminum, etc. Thermotech Fiberglass windows began to fall apart shortly after install: GBA Fiberglass windows are more thermally stable with the glazing than vinyl, that is true. Fiberglass windows should last a long, long time, although repainting the frames might be needed over time. The cons of fiberglass window frames is that unpainted/exposed fiberglass will disintegrate when exposed to UV. The fiberglass resins will come apart if exposed to UV so having them correctly painted & protected is very important. The other con of fiberglass windows is that they only get
a Class C fire rating. That is why fiberglass windows
are not used on commercial projects, as they require at least a Class B
fire rating for flame spread and smoke density. Inline supposedly
formulated a new resin with a fire retardant but it's pretty costly and
not offered in residential applications. As far as Lincoln Windows go, judging from the comments here and from online searches, they are not a good quality window. Typical low end builder grade windows. |
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windowrookie
Basic Member
Posts:104
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| 24 Jul 2013 04:40 PM |
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Way to stay on topic...not. If you do not know the difference between silicon and caulking, you don't deserve to state an opinion. Where is your response? Please name one fiberglass company that doesn't paint their window. Name one and I will never return here. I am sorry but that has to be one of the stupidest comments I have ever read here. They all are painted!!!!! The paint actually embeds itself into the substrate so it does not have to be repainted. Answer this question, the sustainability study that was released mentioned fiberglass outlasts 38% did it ever mention that it did outlast because the windows were repainted. If fiberglass window manufacturers did not paint them they would be out of business. Therefore guess what, they all paint their windows and everyone knows this. Would you need to point out that if car manufacturers did not paint their cars they would rust, would you, really? repainting the frames might be needed over time Yes they might...haha good one. I might need a lung transplant. I might need have won a billions dollars in Nigeria and Santa might come to my house if I am good. According to you, you need a class B for commercial. Name me one one PVC company that has a Class B, apparently one fiberglass company did so. Therefore fiberglass can be sold in commercial jobs, you are contradicting yourself. If you don't need a class B for residential than why even ask for it? Here again what is your point? Why even bring this up, it is getting pathetic the bantering that is going on as you are grasping at straws. Fiberglass not in commercial projects??? Are you drunk, it depends on the specs, application, glass percentage,...Go to any fiberglass company website or call them. I take back my earlier comment, this is the stupidest comment ever. Please don't try to put that little deceptive bug into peoples head. Fiberglass outlasts vinyl, it might and it does. This is fact! |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 24 Jul 2013 04:48 PM |
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Pella Impervia Fiberglass windows are not painted , they are powder coated
.................Bye |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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