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Jhark312
New Member
Posts:27
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| 02 Dec 2010 01:33 PM |
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Thanks BRIND
This from a window and door buyer in the industry. As such, I would assume is very familiar with the various manufacturers and their products in the marketplace. Thanks for your credible input Brindasbaby. (Brind) |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 02 Dec 2010 07:06 PM |
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windowrookie; intresting blog and as blogs are they are just someone else's opinion, which are like belly buttons, we all got one. I can uderstand ones passion against vinyl, but what I don't understand is........... why pick on just vinyl windows? If you are really passionate about alternatives to vinyl then why is there not a great outcry for the other PVC like our water suppply lines that we bathe and drink our water from, PVC drain lines, the miles of PVC jacketing that covers our copper wiring in our homes. Fact is in my opinion I think the silica dust in fiber cement siding is much for dangerous (for the installers health) than vinyl siding. And I'll bet all you guys pissing and moaning about vinyl are living in homes just wreaking of formaldahyde from particle board and OSB. Love that new car smell! its giving you cancer too Its all bad , you just need to pick your poison. Until someone has alternatives I really don't care to hear your complaints. Complaining is the easy part, solving is not so easy! PS Fiberglass resins do offgass for months http://www.healthyhouseinstitute.com/index.php |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 02 Dec 2010 07:42 PM |
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Posted By Jhark312 on 02 Dec 2010 12:21 PM
Chris - Windows 101? Really? LOL
Try "READING 101" -
1.) I stated there was "a down side, and reglazing is a problem", however, it is relatively leakproof. (Embeded in silicone). No need to re-glaze if its broken, you get a new sash. So what your saying is on a fixed sash window (picture window ) you can't replace the glass. So you would need to tear out trim, exterior siding and replace the entire window. Wow thats cost effective
2.) the Jeld-Wen statement - again, your going to take the word of a manufacturer that profits from the SALES of VINYL? Sure, they would be honest if it werent a bad product. they lost 300 million dollars last year, I dont think they are going to speak ill against a profitable side of their own business. No more than McDonalds is going to tell you that Hamburges and fries make you fat! . . . get real.
I think Jen Weld is junk , I only used them as an example because they make wood, vinyl and aluminum. Thay aparently think that the vinyl is better.
As to the Bob Vila Article, thats funny you mention that, because they use roll formed (Cheap) cladding at the sash, and it LEAKS! oh, and they are a divison of Jeld-Wen's window brands. Gee we agree they are junk , you brought them up
Do you suffer from some dillusion that you are the omnipotent expert advisor on all things building? And do your replies need be so condescending & dimunitive? Do You have to make dissented opinions this personal??? Thats Doctor patient confidentiality
Your Arrogance is ASTOUNDING! Maybe after 40+ years in the business its time to retire if you cannot embrace new ideas or technologies.
After searching and a phone call to my local retailers, I am uploading 2 cut sheets found right on thier fiberglass window websites (integritywindows.com & PellaWindows.com) find it on the Marvin site . Please see the attched "vinyl sealing strip" oops missed that didn't you. Oh my its on the inside its going to expand and fall out.
Do tell us professor know it all "Windows 101" . . where in the attached picture is the glazing Bead??? I have even circled the glass/sash area so you can find it quickly. Your just to easy JH you actually circle the vinyl bead on the Pella attachment , THANK YOU you made my day!
There is none. But somehow I feel certian you won't gracefully admit that your wrong, or that you might have learned something, but will move on to do what??? . . . another snied comment? trash this window because its not in your accepted practices box? or because it has a vinly nailing fin? Lets see what bloviation comes next. . . . .
I won't let you goad me into further arguement or disagreement. You seem to lack the gentility to conduct a reasonable debate in which someone disagrees with your opinions. Good Day! Ditto   |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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windowrookie
Basic Member
Posts:104
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| 03 Dec 2010 12:22 PM |
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Chris
I am not anti vinyl but pro fiberglass. But when you mention something I know is untrue and have not factually backed up then it is my right to ask you to prove it. Fiberglass manufacturing is similar in sense to lighting a match. When it is fully cured, it cannot be reversed no matter what you do to it. Same goes here, catalysts are used along with fillers, lubricants, anti shrink agents and of course the resin. Typically the substrate is 98% cured within minutes of coming off the line and I've heard up to a week maximum to be fully cured.
All fiberglass frames need to be coated with something, typically paint. Paint is compromised of pigment and solvent. Once the solvent evaporate/cured, you have 100% pigment coating the surface of the substrate. Are you suggesting that the frame is off gassing styrene through 0.8- 1.2 mils of paint for months.
Therefore, let us not argue. Just provide me with factual proof that fiberglass windows off gas for months and I will write you an sincerely apology. But until you do, I ask you to not engage anyone in your unjustified claims.
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 03 Dec 2010 12:46 PM |
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windowrookie;
I am also not anti fiberglass, I simply hate to see JH slamming a product using extremely biased blogs. My research (from a blog too) showed that fiberglass out gasses for months and that it has been known to blister paint because of it.
I am no chemist and no manufaturing expert. You may, or may not be right, however a fiberglass window also has PVC parts and so to some extent even the PVC will off gas.
In my mind you have not proved your case either. There are many opinions given on the forum, I think most people can separate fact from fanatical fiction. Regardless of wether fiberglass off gasses or not, price will be the determing factor between vinyl and fiberglass anyway.
I have some fiberglass exterior doors in my own home and Simonton Vinyl windows, I am please with both. If any off gassing was a concern to me I would be tearing out my carpeting before getting rid of the windows. It is a non issue for me.
Fiberglass windows are not mainstream in my area, if they ever are and they become competitve to vinyl , I would probably try them on one of my homes.
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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windowrookie
Basic Member
Posts:104
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| 03 Dec 2010 05:24 PM |
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Chris
I agree with most of what you said above but I never stated that fiberglass off gasses but you did. If your going to make a statement and regardless of the fact, you should be able to support it. I do not have to prove my point as I did make this audacious claim. I asked you to prove your claim....you did not. Next time state, it is my opinion that....
In regards to fiberglass windows having PVC parts, that would be incorrect as well. I can send you to many job sites with large picture fiberglass windows using aluminum stops....
Btw, your research was probably based on old blogs in regards to the Owens Corning window(manufactured in Pennsylvania in the 90's) that some people claimed had a smell. That smell was the corner joint adhesive.
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greencleaning
New Member
Posts:50
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| 05 Dec 2010 06:44 AM |
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Vinyl film are so rigid.vinyl window with large openings usually requires an enternal metal extrusion to make the frame stipper.this can lower the frame,s value significantly.
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Here's to you, your health and the health of your family. <a href="http://www.cleaningcleaner.com">Eco friendly cleaning</a>
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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Pipemajor
New Member
Posts:56
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| 16 Feb 2011 12:36 PM |
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I'm just a consumer and had to make a choice between vinyl or fiberglass. The premium vinyl windows I was looked very nice. Factory applied woodgrain interior finish and choice of 4 exterior solid colors. Fully foam filled frames and very impressive U-factors.
That said, I chose fiberglass for my replacement project. Wood interior which can be stained to perfectly match or existing woodwork and nearly as impressive U-factor (0.19) and SHGC (0.18) numbers. Deal breaker was my in-law works at the fiberglass window manufacturer and I was able to get a 42.5% discount.
Contractors are on-site as I type.
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windowrookie
Basic Member
Posts:104
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| 16 Feb 2011 04:06 PM |
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Chris
Give it a rest. Really, it took you 3 months to come up with that response....
Here's a nice link for you... http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/campaigns/toxics/go-pvc-free/
You may have even heard of this organization, they are called Greenpeace? Btw, they have fiberglass windows in their HQ.
But I like the term article "Poison Plastic". Check and mate..
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 16 Feb 2011 06:04 PM |
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windowrookie; I was not searching for 3 months , I happened upon the link. If the post was meant for you I would have addessed it to you  |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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Jhark312
New Member
Posts:27
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| 16 Feb 2011 06:54 PM |
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Nice try Chris.
Rookie, your spot on.
If you take a minute to look at who sponsored the youtube video its the Vinyl Institute. . . hmm? Questionable? Definitely. He claims he parted with GreenPeace because he disagreed with their vehement opposition to vinyl and PVC . . .. my bet is that the truth is, the vinyl institue had a larger checkbook, and hired him to bring credibility to their disinformation. He's a paid gun, and that video was professionally recorded and promulgated by a conglomeration of Vinyl, PVC, and plastic manufacturers.
(Edited by GBT Mod) |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 16 Feb 2011 07:18 PM |
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sorry guys I posted for the "open minded" reader
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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passivesolar
New Member
Posts:10
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| 16 Feb 2011 07:52 PM |
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Ok ok stop fighting girls, you are both pretty! |
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greentree
Advanced Member
Posts:587
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| 19 Feb 2011 09:23 AM |
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What's pretty is that red velvet background behind the trophy, it really makes the crystal orb "pop."
Chris, is the trophy base made of MDF? If it is it's offgassing. Also, there may be lead in the golden cradle. |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 19 Feb 2011 03:34 PM |
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not velvet, real wood, solid brass, lead is in the crystal  |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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windowrookie
Basic Member
Posts:104
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| 25 Feb 2011 09:43 AM |
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Chris FYI, Just wanted to point this out for you. He is the speaker in the video you posted.
Patrick Moore (born in 1947) is a former environmental activist, known as one of the early members of Greenpeace,
in which he was an activist from 1971 to 1986. Today he is the
co-founder, chair, and chief scientist of Greenspirit Strategies in
Vancouver, a consulting firm that provides paid public relations
efforts, lectures, lobbying, opinions and committee participation to
government and industry on a wide range of environmental and
sustainability issues In 1986, after leaving Greenpeace not necessarily by his own choosing His critics point out Moore's business relations with "polluters and clear-cutters" through his consultancy. [22]
Moore has earned his living since the early 1990s primarily by
consulting for, and publicly speaking for a wide variety of corporations
and lobby groups http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_(28environmentalist)29 Just like you said earlier, everyone has an opinion....especially if you are paid to give it. |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 25 Feb 2011 03:42 PM |
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Posted By windowrookie on 25 Feb 2011 09:43 AM
Just like you said earlier, everyone has an opinion....especially if you are paid to give it.
Thanks, but Patrick Moore was also paid by Greenpeace for his leadership. I can only surmise that with age comes wisdom. |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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windowrookie
Basic Member
Posts:104
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| 27 Feb 2011 03:45 AM |
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Vinyl is not Green and never will be...
Moderator, please close down this thread.
Thank you.
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FBBP
Veteran Member
Posts:1215
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| 28 Feb 2011 11:11 AM |
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Posted By cmkavala on 25 Feb 2011 03:42 PM
Posted By windowrookie on 25 Feb 2011 09:43 AM
Just like you said earlier, everyone has an opinion....especially if you are paid to give it.
Thanks, but Patrick Moore was also paid by Greenpeace for his leadership. I can only surmise that with age comes wisdom.
The big difference between Moore and Greenpeace (now there's an oxymoron) is that gp wants to make money yelling and screaming and shut everything down. Moore has learnt to try and find win win situations. As you suggested "with age comes wisdom." |
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