vitempest
New Member
Posts:15
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| 30 Mar 2013 07:15 PM |
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Hello, I am building an ICF home on the water in the Virgin Islands and have to make a window choice. I used PGT in my current home which is immediatley next door and can report that our extremely harsh climate ruined these windows in less than 10 years. I am leaning towards fiberglass. Anyone care to make a suggestion on a brand that you are pleased wirh? |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 30 Mar 2013 07:26 PM |
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Posted By vitempest on 30 Mar 2013 07:15 PM
Hello, I am building an ICF home on the water in the Virgin Islands and have to make a window choice. I used PGT in my current home which is immediatley next door and can report that our extremely harsh climate ruined these windows in less than 10 years. I am leaning towards fiberglass. Anyone care to make a suggestion on a brand that you are pleased wirh?
What brand is PGT? Are they vinyl? Fiberglass is a good choice, especially in a salt air area. A few Canadian manufacturers make fiberglass windows and the U.S. Marvin windows also makes fiberglass windows, although the Marvin ones are only available in double pane. I believe the Canadian manufacturers make the best fiberglass profiles out there and they make them in triple pane and get excellent air leakage numbers. Nothing is "perfect" in life and the Kryptonite for fiberglass windows is UV. If they get scratched or if the paint is removed to where it exposes the fiberglass, the UV will literally disintegrate the UV fiber resins. Raw fiberglass exposed to the sun will make the fiberglass frames fall apart. As long as they are coated, they will be fine. As you know with the ICF build, the rebar must be treated in a high salt air content like yours in order to prevent the rebar from rusting within your ICF wall and causing serious problems. Do they require an epoxy coating on the rebar or just galvanized? |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 30 Mar 2013 09:20 PM |
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G90 galvanized rebar or Rock Rebar would probably be better than epoxy coated. See http://www.basalt-rebar.com/ for rock rebar. Epoxy coating is easily nicked which can lead to rust forming under the epoxy. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 30 Mar 2013 09:50 PM |
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Posted By Alton on 30 Mar 2013 09:20 PM
G90 galvanized rebar or Rock Rebar would probably be better than epoxy coated. See http://www.basalt-rebar.com/ for rock rebar. Epoxy coating is easily nicked which can lead to rust forming under the epoxy.
Good advice. That was one of the reasons for problems with the structure failing at Alcatraz. The contractor used a lesser quality rebar and the salt air did it's thing and the concrete wall began to fall apart. That was one of the reasons why they were able to break out of Alcatraz by chipping away at the weakened and deteriorating concrete walls. |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 30 Mar 2013 10:05 PM |
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When the rebar rusts, it expands and cracks the concrete. Galvanizing rebar is more than just coating the rebar like epoxy does. The thicker the coating the longer it will last. I believe that G90 is the minimum thickness for salty air. G90 rebar will cost more than non-galvanized but will make the structure last much longer. See http://www.rustfreetrucks.com/rebar/ for comparison of hot-dip galvanized and epoxy coated rebar. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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vitempest
New Member
Posts:15
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| 30 Mar 2013 10:18 PM |
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Off topic fellas, looking for suggestions on window brands you are familiar with please. Thank you. |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 31 Mar 2013 01:37 AM |
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Posted By vitempest on 30 Mar 2013 10:18 PM
Off topic fellas, looking for suggestions on window brands you are familiar with please. Thank you.
GBA Fiberglass Window TalkThe above link should help. Fiberglass is a relatively new choice in the window frame choices. I think it accounts for 3% of all windows sold. So you won't get that many people commenting who actually have them installed. With that being said, I do believe they are a good choice for an area like yours. |
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sailawayrb
Veteran Member
Posts:2283
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| 31 Mar 2013 01:23 PM |
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Fiberglass window choices are expanding. In addition to Marvin, Milgard also manufactures double pane fiberglass windows. Milgard glass is available with low-E coatings (perhaps good for Virgin Islands) and no coating (good for passive solar heating applications).
Milgard Fiberglass Windows |
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Lee Dodge
Advanced Member
Posts:714
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| 31 Mar 2013 01:30 PM |
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Posted By vitempest on 30 Mar 2013 07:15 PM
Hello, I am building an ICF home on the water in the Virgin Islands and have to make a window choice. I used PGT in my current home which is immediatley next door and can report that our extremely harsh climate ruined these windows in less than 10 years. I am leaning towards fiberglass. Anyone care to make a suggestion on a brand that you are pleased wirh?
PGT currently makes both vinyl and aluminum windows. Which type was used in your current home that were ruined after 10 years? |
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Lee Dodge,
<a href="http://www.ResidentialEnergyLaboratory.com">Residential Energy Laboratory,</a>
in a net-zero source energy modified production house
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vitempest
New Member
Posts:15
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| 31 Mar 2013 03:05 PM |
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Aluminum patio doors and sliding windows, all with coastal hardware package. |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 31 Mar 2013 03:28 PM |
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Posted By vitempest on 31 Mar 2013 03:05 PM
Aluminum patio doors and sliding windows, all with coastal hardware package.
So the aluminum windows and doors began to rust and fall apart? You would figure that with the coastal package, they would have treated the metal but as with most things today, you get poor quality control and products. Make sure that whatever fiberglass manufacturer you go with to get something in writing about the coastal application. As mentioned, fiberglass is a great choice but its Achilles Heel is UV and the paint is what protects the fiberglass fibers from being destroyed in the sun. If you peeled the paint on a fiberglass window frame and exposed the resin to UV, the frames would literally disintegrate over time. Make sure the manufacturer will cover the frame paint from being sprayed with salt air. |
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vitempest
New Member
Posts:15
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| 31 Mar 2013 04:07 PM |
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Aluminum corrodes, especially in the presence of salts and or dissimilar metals. While there is a lot of pitting on the surface of the window and door frames the worst damage was near the roller axles. Here the worst corrosion perforated the frame in the axle area and caused the frame to bulge with the buildup of aluminum oxide. An insulator surrounding the stainless steel roller when inserted into the aluminum door frame would have greatly mitigated this.
Re: Fiberglass and UV, I am a marine professional and well aware of the effects of UV on bare fiberglass.
Thanks |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 31 Mar 2013 07:28 PM |
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Posted By vitempest on 31 Mar 2013 04:07 PM
Aluminum corrodes, especially in the presence of salts and or dissimilar metals. While there is a lot of pitting on the surface of the window and door frames the worst damage was near the roller axles. Here the worst corrosion perforated the frame in the axle area and caused the frame to bulge with the buildup of aluminum oxide. An insulator surrounding the stainless steel roller when inserted into the aluminum door frame would have greatly mitigated this.
Re: Fiberglass and UV, I am a marine professional and well aware of the effects of UV on bare fiberglass.
Thanks
Check out that link I posted to the GBA article, it has a lot of good information on Fiberglass window manufacturers. I've dealt with Inline and Accurate Dorwin on a limited basis but through my research I found them to be good companies producing good fiberglass windows. My favorite was Accurate Dorwin. Per Accurate Dorwin's website:
Impervious to moisture and salt, fiberglass windows will not pit or
corrode, making it perfect for coastal applications. And unlike aluminum,
fiberglass is resistant to corrosion, pitting and denting, making it
ideal for coastal applicationsI would personally stay away from Milgard Windows. I currently have the Milgard Vinyl Windows (5 years old) and they are COMPLETE AND UTTER JUNK. Everyone I know with Milgard vinyl windows has nothing but problems with broken seals, bowing, twisting, UV damage, cracked glass, etc. I've heard NOTHING good about their fiberglass line either. The few people that used the fiberglass had issues with the fiberglass strength and with distortion issues. They do not make a good fiberglass window or door. Milgard had to close down quite a few factories in the past 1-2 years to stay afloat. Their warranty division has really gone downhill and because of downsizing they are rejecting and refusing to fix anything under warranty. Being that you are in a very moderate tropical climate, high R-values are not necessary. The windows should still get good air infiltration ratings and should have low SHGC < 0.30 numbers to keep from heating up. |
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sailawayrb
Veteran Member
Posts:2283
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| 01 Apr 2013 02:53 PM |
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Thanks Lbear. I actually requested feedback on Milgard Windows in a previous post a few months ago, but never received any feedback. What initially impressed me about Milgard was the ability to get uncoated glass (high SHGC) which as you know is beneficial for passive solar applications. This is great information. |
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arkie6
Veteran Member
Posts:1453
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| 01 Apr 2013 11:34 PM |
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Posted By sailawayrb on 01 Apr 2013 02:53 PM
Thanks Lbear. I actually requested feedback on Milgard Windows in a previous post a few months ago, but never received any feedback. What initially impressed me about Milgard was the ability to get uncoated glass (high SHGC) which as you know is beneficial for passive solar applications. This is great information.
You can get Cardinal LoE-180 high solar heat gain glass in the Marvin Integrity All-Ultrex fiberglass frame windows. I think Pella offers a similar glass they call Natural Sun in their Impervia fiberglass frame windows. |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 02 Apr 2013 03:53 AM |
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Posted By sailawayrb on 01 Apr 2013 02:53 PM
Thanks Lbear. I actually requested feedback on Milgard Windows in a previous post a few months ago, but never received any feedback. What initially impressed me about Milgard was the ability to get uncoated glass (high SHGC) which as you know is beneficial for passive solar applications. This is great information.
Sounds like Milgard. When I contacted them about fiberglass windows the sales reps tried to talk me out of looking at them. I always found that strange but Canadians have mastered the fiberglass window profile. The American window manufacturers don't want to change their million dollar machines to accommodate fiberglass extrusions, especially since the fiberglass market is still in its infancy here in the USA. First choice for fiberglass is Canadian and Accurate Dorwin are very reputable. If you had to get American fiberglass, you can try Marvin but they have poor performance numbers when it comes to air leakage. They pass standards but that is code minimum and a good window should see < 0.03cfm of air infiltration. MARVIN FIBERGLASS WINDOW AIR LEAKAGE I am not a fan of American windows. Everything is about cheap and fast and cutting corners. GBA never really recommends American made windows and most of the high energy build articles the contractors are using European or Canadian made windows. Maybe in a few years they will step up to the plate but for now it's Euro or Canada. Pella WindowsWood Windows |
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ljones
New Member
Posts:1
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| 02 Apr 2013 12:35 PM |
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Milgard appreciates and encourages conversation and we are happy to join in this one. Milgard Vinyl windows were just recently recognized for the 8th time as the Brand Leader in Overall Vinyl Quality by Builder Magazine-a leading publication in the residential construction industry. Along with our vinyl, Milgard manufactures our own fiberglass frames and we take pride in the quality of our fiberglass products, as we have for over 50 years. Our vinyl, fiberglass, aluminum and wood windows are all manufactured in Milgard plants across the western U.S. We take great pride in the Milgard Full Lifetime Warranty and are committed to providing the best warranty service in the industry, plus we accept warranty service requests via our website.
Again, we appreciate the conversation and we also encourage everyone to also read the reviews on Milgard.com of thousands customers who have rated our products, our service and our dealers. |
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sailawayrb
Veteran Member
Posts:2283
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| 03 Apr 2013 10:22 AM |
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Ljones, our primary interest is around the performance and the quality of fiberglass windows. For my company, this is largely for passive solar building applications...so UV tolerance is critical too. Can you please provide additional info relative to your fiberglass window performance such as available U-factor, SHGC, UV tolerance, and air infiltration. Can you also please provide additional info relative to your fiberglass window defect and warranty claim history which was specifically mentioned as a concern with Milgard windows. Thank you for engaging with this forum. |
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vitempest
New Member
Posts:15
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| 03 Apr 2013 03:34 PM |
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Hello Everyone,
So far I have called Milgard four times to try and speak with someone about windows for my home. To a person they all insist that I must first speak with the sales manager, Jeff Cain, to see if he will sell windows to my area, or not. I have left four messages now over three days and have not yet had the courtesy of a return phone call. Hmmm...
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 03 Apr 2013 06:17 PM |
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Posted By vitempest on 03 Apr 2013 03:34 PM
Hello Everyone,
So far I have called Milgard four times to try and speak with someone about windows for my home. To a person they all insist that I must first speak with the sales manager, Jeff Cain, to see if he will sell windows to my area, or not. I have left four messages now over three days and have not yet had the courtesy of a return phone call. Hmmm...
Maybe you might get a robo response like the above post they made?  That thing reads like an advertisement and all the hyperlinks in the post surely solidifies that. Do you want to see pics of how my 5 year old Milgard Windows look? Twisted & bowed out frames, vinyl deteriorating on the outside, my single hung frame has a "smiley" face since the vinyl has bowed. Mind you these are not just my windows, take a walk around the area and it is very common for their vinyl windows. While this is a tract home and these are "builder" grade windows, they still shouldn't be falling apart after 5 years. As far as their "Lifetime Warranty", good luck with that. They've closed down their factory in Arizona due to budgetary costs and when I brought up these issues, they told me it's "wear and tear" and the warranty does not cover environmental wear and tear. Warranties are only as good as the product itself. I would rather have NO warranty and a top made window than a "Lifetime Warranty" with a cheap window. Window Warranties are pretty much useless nowadays and is a marketing gimmick. Do yourself a favor, if you want fiberglass windows, stick with the Canadian manufacturers. If you want a high quality vinyl or wood/aluminum clad, go to the European manufacturers. If this is a home you want to live in for a long time, get the better window. |
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