230 VAC nominal is no issue (voltages in the UK can exceed 250V). 60Hz vs 50Hz is unlikely to be a problem given that the compressor is driven by an inverter; but I agree, check before buying.

Check out the Stiebel Eltron model. It is made in Germany and I suspect it is better than the GE.

Posted By jonr on 17 May 2013 10:14 PM
230 VAC nominal is no issue (voltages in the UK can exceed 250V). 60Hz vs 50Hz is unlikely to be a problem given that the compressor is driven by an inverter; but I agree, check before buying.

Given the bizzare standards for frequencies and voltages on the Japanese grid I'd be surprised if they didn't design it work over a wide range, but having been bitten more than once on power supplies with differing European power standards, getting manufacturer sign off on it is still important.

I have one of these in my home, and after two years, no problems. We use the "Energy Saver" mode, with a high temperature setting.

Posted By JimGagnepain on 24 Jun 2013 10:22 AM
I have one of these in my home, and after two years, no problems. We use the "Energy Saver" mode, with a high temperature setting.

You have a Stiebel Eltron?  Heat pump hybrid? (or conventional tankless? they offer many products)


The only issue I have with an all in one heatpump DWH is, I do not want to install my water tank outside, and it's not a good idea to install an "all in one heat pump DWH" inside a conditioned space, where it will cool the interior temp (starts working against itself).  And there are limitations on how far you can duct (length) the cool air by-product outside

It looks like the original poster's link is no longer valid. Here is the latest Rheem Hybrid hot water tank, which is probably close to mine:

http://www.rheem.com/product/water-heating-heat-pump-hybrid-heat-pump

Mine is a model number Rheem JPYA A050. I no longer see it on their site. Probably replaced with the above unit. It is installed inside. Mine is in a "hot" area of the house, in front of a passive solar window, where it often gets in the 90 deg F range (during the cold months).

There is an idea - use a timer to turn the water heater off during non solar hours and only let it run when the room may have an excess of solar heat gain.

Posted By jonr on 24 Jun 2013 11:19 AM
There is an idea - use a timer to turn the water heater off during non solar hours and only let it run when the room may have an excess of solar heat gain.

I could do this, but it may be overkill.  This area of our house is open to the rest of the house, so although warmer during the day, the air and temperature gradient circulates quickly.

Stirring this pot again.

I've decided to specify a hybrid heat pump DWH. Well, it wasn't my first choice but it is the most cost effective solutiong that well let me get my Title 24 compliance sheet, so I can obtain my building permit. I can always eventually look at more efficient alternatives (split unit, passive solar water heater, etc) later on down the road.

I plan on putting the Water Heater out in the garage so the heat pump will not affect conditioned air. It's not a bad plan, as my first floor mechanical room is less than 15' away from the area in the garage where the HP/DWH will be located in the garage. The garage will eventually be insulated.

My Title 24 consultant suggested the GE GeoSpring, and I told her to put that into my plan, and if I don't end up using that one, I'll use one with similar or better specs. As long as I the specs are comparable or better on the one I eventually install, I'm in compliance.

After reading all the horrible reviews on the GE, one would have to have balls of steel to go forward and install it.

The Rheem doesn't have the sample size of reviews, some are good, others are not so good. I will continue to seek out Rheem reviews.

Other brands to consider are? I think AO Smith makes a hybrid unit? Any other comments? It's shocking how little selection and review/feedback there is out there for hybrid heat pump DWH solutions.

I don't want to consider a split unit...and the split solutions out there are either very esoteric, very expensive (long term ROI) or all of the above. And considerable more installation time/costs. I can install a hybrid HP DWH myself.

Personally... I feel a rooftop Passive Solar tank, augmented by a reliable HP DMW 80 gal is a cost effective easy to install solution. Heating the water up passively before it enters the HP DWH means the inlet to the DWH is already pretty warm and the energy needed to heat it further or keep it hot is minimal. And I just may eventually augment the HP DWH with some sort of passive solution...but for now I'd like to just find a stand alone hybrid unit that is reliable and doesn't cost more than $2500 (hopefully even less).

With the GE, it looks like you'd need to have another unit installed beside the primary unit, for when it unit fails. Kinda like the old joke of needing 2 Jaguars, one to drive and one for in the shop.

The Aergenerate AirTap series is pretty good. It's 2x the cost of a GeoSpring, but should last 2x as long (longer than most of the others too) due to it's all-stainless construction.

http://www.airgenerate.com/

http://nwwaterheaters.com/products/integrated-units/

http://www.gpconservation.com/airgenerate/airgenerate-66-gallon-heat-pump-water-heater-ati66?gclid=CImFt42psLwCFelZ7AodiGEAkQ

Since you can duct the cool-air output of the AirTaps, directing it to another location you can put the water heater where you want it (even in a closet, if that's more convenient) with out concern for over-cooling the room where you place it.

Google "ecotope HPWH" for a set of white papers comparing the specs of different units. IIRC, the rheem had poor efficiency, and the AO Smith was louder and had a wider operating temp range. The GE was in the middle. There were some bad units in the first generation of GEs. They are now in their second generation....check the date on the reviews.

FWIW: I have an 80 gal AO Smith in a coldish garage location where noise is not an issue...and I am happy with my choice.

Posted By woodgeek68 on 03 Feb 2014 07:41 PM
Google "ecotope HPWH" for a set of white papers comparing the specs of different units. IIRC, the rheem had poor efficiency, and the AO Smith was louder and had a wider operating temp range. The GE was in the middle. There were some bad units in the first generation of GEs. They are now in their second generation....check the date on the reviews.

FWIW: I have an 80 gal AO Smith in a coldish garage location where noise is not an issue...and I am happy with my choice.

Thank you for that!

This one has a very good sample set showing how the AirGenerate AirTap ATI-50 and ATI-66 perform in-situ, with enough binned temperature performance numbers to predict how they would perform in the slightly warmer north coastal CA climate.

Thanks both of you for that.

I could install the HPWH in my mechanical room and duct it out, but I have concerns about the noise. Mechanical room is in the middle of the house (first floor) and I would have to go to extraordinary efforts to insulate that room from noise, if I install it there. Outside wall is only appx 12' away from where I could install it, so an exhaust duct is possible.

1. I wonder if I could get away with sharing the stale air exhaust duct with my HRV/ERV system?
2. I am concerned about the negative pressure it would add to a tight house.

The garage is not a bad option, although it will be colder out there in the winter time and therefor the unit would not operate as efficiently at that time of the year. The noise in the garage would never be an issue though. Draining condensate on the garage would be easy too. And it would be appx 15' from my pex manifold in the mechanical room

Many of the bad reviews of the GE units are within the last 12-18 months, but its hard to get a feel if they were installing Gen 1 units or Gen 2 units. I have a year before I have to decide on a unit to purchase, but I need to decide this summer, where it will be installed. Actually I need to decide now, as it needs to be indicated on the plans I submit for my building permit in early March.

Posted By JohnRLee on 06 Feb 2014 09:16 AM
Thanks both of you for that.

I could install the HPWH in my mechanical room and duct it out, but I have concerns about the noise. Mechanical room is in the middle of the house (first floor) and I would have to go to extraordinary efforts to insulate that room from noise, if I install it there. Outside wall is only appx 12' away from where I could install it, so an exhaust duct is possible.

1. I wonder if I could get away with sharing the stale air exhaust duct with my HRV/ERV system?
2. I am concerned about the negative pressure it would add to a tight house.

The garage is not a bad option, although it will be colder out there in the winter time and therefor the unit would not operate as efficiently at that time of the year. The noise in the garage would never be an issue though. Draining condensate on the garage would be easy too. And it would be appx 15' from my pex manifold in the mechanical room

Many of the bad reviews of the GE units are within the last 12-18 months, but its hard to get a feel if they were installing Gen 1 units or Gen 2 units. I have a year before I have to decide on a unit to purchase, but I need to decide this summer, where it will be installed. Actually I need to decide now, as it needs to be indicated on the plans I submit for my building permit in early March.

I put my unit very near my passive solar windows (angled windows with intense wintertime solar entry). It works quite well there. The temps are often above 80F, and sometimes into the 90s. The house is an open design, and it does makes some noise, but not too bad. Plus it generally only kicks the fan on during waking hours, because nobody is using hot water at night. Something to consider. We did build out a small pony wall, with some insulation against the sound. As mentioned earlier, I have a Rheem unit. This installation is about as close as you can get an active solar hot water system with an array, without the considerable expense.

Also, why do you need an exhaust vent. Are you looking at a gas unit? Mine is electric.

Heat Pumps take the heat out of the air, so it usually is inadvisable to install one in a conditioned space unless you can duct the cold air outside, especially in the winter. Since I'm in a climate zone that does not require AC and does require heating for several months a year, my heater would be bucking the heat pump. And my Title 24 compliance report will not allow me to install it in a conditioned space without ducting the cold air out...or I would not be in compliance.

I have spent some hours researching electric heat pump water heaters and seems as though they all have problems when compared to a normal hot water heater. All we can do as consumers is to continually complain to the manufactures about the numerous design flaws. Some of these manufactures are selling crap that should have never been allowed on the market.

Pertaining to there design flaws and their are many, I think they where designed into the product on propose, you will never be able to make warranty claims against these defects unless you enjoy spending thousands of dollars taking corporations to court!

It will most likely take a class action law suit to force them to build the units like they should have been designed to begin with.

What really should set consumers on fire is when a manufacture claims there product is state of the art than discontinues the model only to replace it with another so called newer state of art over priced piece of crap that performs even worst than there previous model. You call them and complain about the unit not performing as well as the previous unit, and they tell you "Well its newer Technology, its going to have bugs in it" Makes you wonder if they even tested the product before mass production.

This is a game manufactures have been playing for decades to keep sales and parts flowing. They call it business/product cycles, I call it getting the old royal shaft.

Posted By JohnRLee on 06 Feb 2014 01:31 PM
Heat Pumps take the heat out of the air, so it usually is inadvisable to install one in a conditioned space unless you can duct the cold air outside, especially in the winter. Since I'm in a climate zone that does not require AC and does require heating for several months a year, my heater would be bucking the heat pump. And my Title 24 compliance report will not allow me to install it in a conditioned space without ducting the cold air out...or I would not be in compliance.

You need some effective passive solar to pick up some heat gain.

Posted By ricky_005 on 06 Feb 2014 09:33 PM
I have spent some hours researching electric heat pump water heaters and seems as though they all have problems when compared to a normal hot water heater. All we can do as consumers is to continually complain to the manufactures about the numerous design flaws. Some of these manufactures are selling crap that should have never been allowed on the market.

Pertaining to there design flaws and their are many, I think they where designed into the product on propose, you will never be able to make warranty claims against the defect unless you want to spend thousands of dollars taking them to court!

It will most likely take a class action law suit to force them to build the units like they should have been designed to begin with.

What really should set consumers on fire is when a manufacture claims there product is state of the art than discontinues the model only to replace it with another so called newer state of art over priced piece of crap that performs even worst than there previous model. You call them and complain about the unit not performing as well as the previous unit, and they tell you "Well its newer Technology, its going to have bugs in it" Makes you wonder if they even tested the product before mass production.

This is a game manufactures have been playing for decades to keep sales and parts flowing. They call it business/product cycles, I call it getting the old royal shaft.

Well you should have researched my way.  I'm 100% happy with my Rheem.

One obvious positive comment I can say about the Rheem line, is if your not satisfied with the hot water delivery system by using just the heat pump they did at less include 2 electric heating elements (Top and bottom of Tank) just like a standard $400 off the shelf hot water heater.  As for their firmware running the whole system, I have no knowledge or experience to say if Reem programmed it correctly or if they have enough sensors to do the job correctly.
Some of these Crooked so called High-End manufacturers (I want mention there names here, (link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSyt-kzGlrA ) only designed in one electric heating element at top of tank. If your not satisfied with heat pump performance Your Luck will run out on this one!

What would be nice is if some of these manufactures started to offer a exotic kits where you have options for higher CMF condenser fans maybe even the option for a stand along fan so ducts can be run further, more complex so you can draw hot air from attic or outdoors during summer months to boost the heat pumps performance. Of course you would need computer controlled dampers and thermostats to know where the best area is to obtain the warmest air and where to exhaust the air based on its air temperature. (inside or outside of home)

Will it take another 20 years for there business/product cycle to catches up?


The Nyle hot water heat pump looks nice .....but there BTU output 6,275 Btu/h needs to be upped, the Reem is at 8700 Btu/h which is quite a bit higher .  The COP efficiency is one of the numbers you have to watch for in all these heat pumps its very a very important spec.

Main question I would like to know is what the true life expectancy of there GEYSER is. I would suspect no longer than a standard high quality hot water heater. Of course water quality has a lot to do with how long your hot water heater last. If you don't replace the anodizing rods when needed, expect your high dollar hot water heater and possibly even the Geyser killing over prematurely.

The idea behind an external heat pump is, if your hot water heater dies prematurely, you only replace the hot water heater. The heat pump water heater manufactures don't like this idea for obvious reasons.
http://water.nyle.com/residential/