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DAND
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| 31 Dec 2013 04:58 PM |
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The most important point in passive solar design is house orientation. Keep the sun out in summer and allow it in the house in winter. It appears your house is 180 degrees off. Minimize windows on east and west, and eliminate almost all windows on the north while utilizing larger south facing windows for winter heat while utilizing roof overhangs over south facing windows to keep out summer sun. What is your latitude? A north facing skylight will not be helpful in retaining heat. Each sky light is like having a R-5 hole in the roof. Is it too late to rotate your house 180? Check out the "passive solar simplified" series on You Tube, I found it very helpful. |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 31 Dec 2013 08:10 PM |
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Posted By ICFHybrid on 30 Dec 2013 07:35 PM
This does not appear to be a passive solar in any way.
You have the largest windows not only facing North, but also exposed to the summer setting sun. Very small windows on the South and set in the middle of the wall with tiny overhangs so you get no help there between summer and winter. Did I mention the north-facing skylights?
At this point, you'd be much better off insulating very well and reducing the openings as they are all in the wrong places.
What is behind your desire for radiant, again?
I agree with the above. The current design is not a passive solar design. A passive solar home should ideally face due south with 8%-12% of the glazing square footage being on the south elevation. For example, if the home is 3,000 ft², then the south glazing should be around 240-360 ft². Those skylights HAVE TO GO. They are about the worst thing you can do to your roof. They are basically holes in your roof and your just funneling money $$$ out those skylights during winter and summer like a chimney. Those 5 skylights are about 5 too many. The 2 fake dormers also should be eliminated. Way too many windows on the north side and too few on the south side. A green energy build home should be designed from the ground up as a green building. |
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greentree
Advanced Member
Posts:587
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| 01 Jan 2014 09:28 AM |
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Lbear, construction mastermind, those dormers aren't fake. |
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greentree
Advanced Member
Posts:587
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| 01 Jan 2014 10:09 AM |
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Looking over your plans couple things stand out, may or may not matter to you, but as a builder people will notice these points.
-You will have many more steps from garage slab to house than drawn.
-Future basement bedrooms will need egress windows and wells.
-If the drawing is scaled correctly there looks like a lot of tight points with regard to flow. Island to pantry and two sides of island, half bath sink toilet area, width of laundry, above garage bath vanity to tub space, exterior door to breakfast bar stick out.
-Pocket door to master closet will hinder standard bath plumbing and wiring.
-8x11 dining area based on # of possible bedrooms is rather small for gatherings.
-Trusses will (normally to keep costs in check) be 24" on center and you will want a min. of 1/2" roof deck, in northern Wi we are doing 5/8"
-3/4" T&G flooring will perform better than 5/8".
-Watch your floor joist deflection rating in the living room, go with a beefier I joist to avoid bounce.
-As has been mentioned, your "heel block" should be on the exterior. A 32' 12/12 truss will have plenty of heel height over the wall plate for insulation. I've never had ice dam issues with a normal 7" heel if executed properly. A raised heel is nice, but from a design standpoint it generally screws up the elevations unless to go with extra deep soffits, as the higher the heel, the higher the fascia.
-Have a careful, specific design for the over garage insulation plan. Typical construction usually leads to uncomfortable spaces.
Hope you get a nugget or two, all my opinion and you know what they say about those.
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FBBP
Veteran Member
Posts:1215
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| 01 Jan 2014 07:10 PM |
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Posted By drip on 29 Dec 2013 03:15 PM
Basement will be ICF, so yes foam, but I do not plan on doing any additional insulating there.
I was hoping to go with the spray foam on the exterior as that will act as my housewrap, but that may be too expensive.
You will need an air gap behind your vertical siding and brick so just use sheet foam and strap it with a house wrap in between. |
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drip
New Member
Posts:26
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| 02 Jan 2014 02:03 PM |
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Posted By ICFHybrid on 30 Dec 2013 07:10 PM
I need AC so I could also install the ac and buy the heating unit afterwards if needed. You can have AC with a standard ducted forced air system or you can have it with a distributed system of ductless mini-split heat pumps, but if you want AC with radiant, it essentially forces you to have two completely separate systems to begin with and you mentioned that you thought you would have to have yet another supplemental heating system? Who is telling you this?
Yes, I understand that if I were to go with radiant it would only be used for heating then I would have to use a traditional duct system for AC or a mini-split system (any experiences on mini-splits/recommendations). Local heating and cooling guys are telling me that I will need a supplemental system for heating. |
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drip
New Member
Posts:26
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| 02 Jan 2014 02:15 PM |
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My desire for radiant heat is for health issues and comfort, as allergies are a problem within the family. A radiant system is also more comfortable to live in, although a luxury and will eliminate the "dampness" in the basement. I have a local wholesaler that I can get supplies from and put the system in myself so the cost of the system compared to the value it brings to the home will be great.
The design of the house was done before we were aware of passive solar and we are now trying to implement some elements of it into the design. I know realize that this should have been a forethought in the design, but that does not mean we still cannot try to get some benefits from the sun.
From my understanding the design of the house would work pretty well in a passive solar design if it was rotated 180 as then our large windows in the back with the overhang from the patio would work well and the smaller windows in the front is ideal.
Thank you everyone for your input and feedback and yes I will be eliminating the skylights. Another question is would skylights be desired at all if they were facing the south or would this be overheating?
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drip
New Member
Posts:26
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| 02 Jan 2014 02:17 PM |
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Posted By DAND on 31 Dec 2013 04:58 PM
The most important point in passive solar design is house orientation. Keep the sun out in summer and allow it in the house in winter. It appears your house is 180 degrees off. Minimize windows on east and west, and eliminate almost all windows on the north while utilizing larger south facing windows for winter heat while utilizing roof overhangs over south facing windows to keep out summer sun. What is your latitude? A north facing skylight will not be helpful in retaining heat. Each sky light is like having a R-5 hole in the roof. Is it too late to rotate your house 180? Check out the "passive solar simplified" series on You Tube, I found it very helpful.
Thank you for the link! My latitude is 42.2583° N, 82.4319° W |
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drip
New Member
Posts:26
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| 02 Jan 2014 02:18 PM |
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Posted By DAND on 31 Dec 2013 04:58 PM
The most important point in passive solar design is house orientation. Keep the sun out in summer and allow it in the house in winter. It appears your house is 180 degrees off. Minimize windows on east and west, and eliminate almost all windows on the north while utilizing larger south facing windows for winter heat while utilizing roof overhangs over south facing windows to keep out summer sun. What is your latitude? A north facing skylight will not be helpful in retaining heat. Each sky light is like having a R-5 hole in the roof. Is it too late to rotate your house 180? Check out the "passive solar simplified" series on You Tube, I found it very helpful.
Thank you for the link! My latitude is 42.2583° N, 82.4319° W I realize if I rotate the house 180 degrees it would help with the solar gains, I am trying to play with some ideas at the moment. |
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Bob I
Veteran Member
Posts:1435
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| 02 Jan 2014 02:29 PM |
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A radiant system.....will eliminate the "dampness" in the basement.
But so will insulation and a good vapor barrier under the slab and on the walls, at a far lower cost and no ongoing costs. |
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| Bob Irving<br>RH Irving Homebuilders<br>Certified Passive House Consultant |
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Bob I
Veteran Member
Posts:1435
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| 02 Jan 2014 02:30 PM |
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that's insulation on the walls, not a VB, but you said earlier that you're using ICFs so you are all set on wall insulation. |
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| Bob Irving<br>RH Irving Homebuilders<br>Certified Passive House Consultant |
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drip
New Member
Posts:26
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| 02 Jan 2014 02:33 PM |
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Posted By greentree on 01 Jan 2014 10:09 AM
Looking over your plans couple things stand out, may or may not matter to you, but as a builder people will notice these points.
-You will have many more steps from garage slab to house than drawn.
That was a late change and that is realized, the new plan is to implement a stepped up walkway in the garage with storage lockers for coats and such
-Future basement bedrooms will need egress windows and wells.
Thank you!
-If the drawing is scaled correctly there looks like a lot of tight points with regard to flow. Island to pantry and two sides of island, half bath sink toilet area, width of laundry, above garage bath vanity to tub space, exterior door to breakfast bar stick out.
This is great input that I was looking for from experienced builders!
The island does need to slimmed down, I plan on taking out the L from the cabinets and extend the cabinets to the first patio door this will open things open more for the open concept and still gives myself alot of room for cabinets. I can then also extend the island out further.
What are your recommendations of the mudroom (half bath I believe you are talking about) and the laundry?
Above the garage I still have a little bit to sort out there, I am speaking with the truss guys right now to see what my options are for getting the most room up there, currently it seems like 16' width and 8' dormers are largest I can go.
-Pocket door to master closet will hinder standard bath plumbing and wiring.
I am going to relocate the doors for this so that when you enter the masterbath from the bedroom the closet door will be located immediately to the left allowing myself also to have a long vanity on the rest of the wall.
-8x11 dining area based on # of possible bedrooms is rather small for gatherings.
I am not sure exactly what to do here I am limited by space
-Trusses will (normally to keep costs in check) be 24" on center and you will want a min. of 1/2" roof deck, in northern Wi we are doing 5/8"
Yes they are 24" on center, I will implement 5/8"
-3/4" T&G flooring will perform better than 5/8".
Agreed
-Watch your floor joist deflection rating in the living room, go with a beefier I joist to avoid bounce.
Thank you!
-As has been mentioned, your "heel block" should be on the exterior. A 32' 12/12 truss will have plenty of heel height over the wall plate for insulation. I've never had ice dam issues with a normal 7" heel if executed properly. A raised heel is nice, but from a design standpoint it generally screws up the elevations unless to go with extra deep soffits, as the higher the heel, the higher the fascia.
Thank you again!
-Have a careful, specific design for the over garage insulation plan. Typical construction usually leads to uncomfortable spaces.
Hope you get a nugget or two, all my opinion and you know what they say about those.
Thank you for your opinion very insightful! If you have any others please feel free.
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drip
New Member
Posts:26
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| 02 Jan 2014 02:34 PM |
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Posted By FBBP on 01 Jan 2014 07:10 PM
Posted By drip on 29 Dec 2013 03:15 PM
Basement will be ICF, so yes foam, but I do not plan on doing any additional insulating there.
I was hoping to go with the spray foam on the exterior as that will act as my housewrap, but that may be too expensive.
You will need an air gap behind your vertical siding and brick so just use sheet foam and strap it with a house wrap in between.
Thank you! Definitely would be cost efficient! |
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drip
New Member
Posts:26
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| 02 Jan 2014 02:37 PM |
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Posted By Bob I on 02 Jan 2014 02:30 PM
that's insulation on the walls, not a VB, but you said earlier that you're using ICFs so you are all set on wall insulation.
You recommend that I am wasting my time and money with radiant flooring and should just go with the insulation under slab to go with the ICF? The insulation under slab needs to be done either way. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:3039
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| 02 Jan 2014 05:15 PM |
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Another question is would skylights be desired at all if they were facing the south or would this be overheating? They would have to allow substantially more heat to enter the house than they lose during the winter and that is difficult with skylights, particularly when they are installed high up. The temperatures up there are greater and the rate of heat loss is increased. AND, when you are in an area requiring cooling in Summer, you have to add the additional AC burden to the picture. All considered, that is a very difficult hump for skylights to get over. My desire for radiant heat is for health issues and comfort, as allergies are a problem within the family. But, you are talking about an AC system which moves air like ducted systems and shares allergen problems? I realize if I rotate the house 180 degrees it would help with the solar gains, You have to have the overhangs such that Winter sun is admitted and Summer sun is blocked, particularly because you have a cooling season. Local heating and cooling guys are telling me that I will need a supplemental system for heating.
I'm sorry. I don't understand that. Is that because they can't give you a radiant system that will meet your home's heat loss? |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 02 Jan 2014 09:27 PM |
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Posted By drip on 02 Jan 2014 02:15 PM
Another question is would skylights be desired at all if they were facing the south or would this be overheating?
The summer solstice sun is at its highest and this is when the skylights would be getting direct sunlight and baking your interior. Not a good idea. Then the winter solstice sun is when the sun is at its lowest and the skylights wouldn't be allowing any sunlight in. A double whammy. So the simple answer is that skylights don't work in a green energy build. They lose heat in the winter and gain heat in the summer. The opposite of what you want to accomplish. |
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greentree
Advanced Member
Posts:587
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| 02 Jan 2014 10:12 PM |
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Drip, 1/2 bath arrangement is often toilet opposite vanity in the current shape you have with the door in the middle, another arrangement could be a small "L" shape with the vanity/toilet on each point and the door on either outer wall in the middle if that makes any sense.
With your layout I would explore an L bath arrangement with the laundry around it garage and exterior side or rotate the current bath shape lengthwise along the hall with a door to bath from hallway and a door to laundry from hall by garage wall leading into laundry below bath (described from plan view).
If i was working with your plans I would try to convince you to get rid of master bath door and kitchen door and I would rework master bath and closet area to reduce used square footage and give it to the living room. (your wife has copious amounts of clothes? there is a basement for unused stuff) Maybe take master width to 14' and give the 2' to dining.
Hope it makes sense, just remember in the end you're living in it, not some faceless guy from the internet. |
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drip
New Member
Posts:26
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| 06 Jan 2014 09:06 PM |
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Posted By ICFHybrid on 02 Jan 2014 05:15 PM
Another question is would skylights be desired at all if they were facing the south or would this be overheating? They would have to allow substantially more heat to enter the house than they lose during the winter and that is difficult with skylights, particularly when they are installed high up. The temperatures up there are greater and the rate of heat loss is increased. AND, when you are in an area requiring cooling in Summer, you have to add the additional AC burden to the picture. All considered, that is a very difficult hump for skylights to get over.
Thank you for the information!
My desire for radiant heat is for health issues and comfort, as allergies are a problem within the family. But, you are talking about an AC system which moves air like ducted systems and shares allergen problems?
Yes, but solving the problem for 3/4 of the year is better than ignoring it, especially since the windows stay shut for such a long time in the winter.
I realize if I rotate the house 180 degrees it would help with the solar gains, You have to have the overhangs such that Winter sun is admitted and Summer sun is blocked, particularly because you have a cooling season.
Local heating and cooling guys are telling me that I will need a supplemental system for heating.
I'm sorry. I don't understand that. Is that because they can't give you a radiant system that will meet your home's heat loss?
Normal practice around here is to sell a supplemental unit, with a list of excuses they give me. I do not believe this is needed, but I will probably end up with a ductless mini split system anyways as I will need the AC unit.
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