WolfCandy3x
New Member
Posts:56
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| 02 Mar 2007 12:34 PM |
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Hi all,
Great advices by all present Btw.. Great Site.... Okay my Question is: My house plan call for 2 garage. 1 of 16 x 12 and the
other one of 24 x 24 both side-by-side. I want to be able to use the space under the garage as rooms. Since most Deck system
can span a 24 feet section would i be able to make a slab able to substain 2 cars in one and 1 car in the other WITHOUT having
to install posts / sonotube under the structure?
Will a LVL beam support the 24 x 24 feet slab. Of course all teh necessary rebar and all will be installed and the floor fill be
monolithic with the icf walls.
Francis |
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seflpolyst
New Member
Posts:9
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| 02 Mar 2007 01:57 PM |
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you can design a flush or dropped concrete or composite steel beam into the garage floor to carry loads and reduce spans, which may eliminate the need for any columns. as for lvls depends on if it can be engineered and how much head room you are willing to sacrifice below, and how to protect it from longterm rotting against the concrete. consult an engineer with concrete experience. if you email me ican email you back a list of pe's. [email protected][email protected] |
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WolfCandy3x
New Member
Posts:56
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| 03 Mar 2007 02:26 PM |
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Thanks for the reply... We finally opted for a regular LVL from one side to another, 12' I shape Floor joist on each side
at a 16" spacing covered with 3/4 inch plywood.. Like a regular floor actually.
We'll pour 6-8 inch concrete over that ( with enough support under ) and let it cure. Since it's gonna be monolithic with the
icf walls on each side we figure that it's enough to hold 2 cars. Beside it's gonna hace enough rebar I doubt it will move.
We are aloso looking into steel floor joist
Francis
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yogia
New Member
Posts:42
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| 03 Mar 2007 04:46 PM |
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Hi Francis:
I did read that you have decided on your structural arrangement -- but let me say this if you are going to have an 8" thick concrete for the 24' x 24' Garage, structurally an 8" thick two-way concrete slab without any other beams and so forht could have been made to work. By the way how did you reach your decision for al LVL I-Joist and plywood decking along with the 6" to 8" thick concrete? Did you consult a structural engineer as was suggested by one of the posters?
I think that if you are planning on having 8" thick concrete anyway, it is worth looking into making that as a two-way reinforced concrete slab. You may also consider the use of hollow-core -- an 8" deep section would work there as well. Don't go by what I am saying -- all I am suggesting is that you ought to look into what I have stated.
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| Regards!<br>Yogi Anand, D.Eng, P.E.<br>Energy Efficient Building Network LLC<br>http://www.energyefficientbuild.com |
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jredburn
New Member
Posts:51
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| 03 Mar 2007 08:05 PM |
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Wolfcandy.
It sounds like you just pulled numbers out of the air or I misunderstood your description of the system.
An 8" concrete slab weighs 100 pounds per square foot. At 16" centers each joist carries 100 lbs x 1.33 sq ft = 133 pounds of dead load per linial foot. Now you want to add two cars at 5000 lbs +/- each directly over 2 or 3 joists. That adds about 200 lb per linial foof of live load. You need to have someone explain LVL span tables to you.
Regards,
Joe |
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WolfCandy3x
New Member
Posts:56
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| 03 Mar 2007 10:11 PM |
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Hi all,
Well I didn't get numbers from thin air, What I figured is that my present garage
is 12 x 20 and the slab is 8" thick and the only support it has is the 4" lip all around the perimeter
from the 10" reduction to 6" stick Frame plus the rebars ans welded mesh.
So from that I extrapoated that is I apply the same conditions and that I add the LVL ( or Steel H beam )
across the 24 feet and from there I put floor joist at every 16" like I would a floor, i could then pour concrete
over the plywood.
One thing is for sure, I wasn't going to go ahead without getting the scenario checked out....
Here the picture of the garage part...
Francis
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 Attachment: garage.jpg
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WolfCandy3x
New Member
Posts:56
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WolfCandy3x
New Member
Posts:56
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| 03 Mar 2007 10:27 PM |
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Hi Yogia,
I've been looking into the hollow system like I mentionned at the begenning, But there aren't to many Engienere
down here with experience with lite-deck / insul=deck or quad-deck or ICF, so getting advice is not easy.
I've been searching through the internet for a case or similar idea has mine as reference but with no luck.
I seriously doubt that a floor made only of a decking system and a 3"concrete thickness would be
strong enough to hold 2 cars ( Civics ).
The main Idea is to be able to use the 2 room under the garages without Posts or Concrete ( Sonotube )...
Or at WORST a Single Central concrete Support.
Francis
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walltech
Basic Member
Posts:390
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| 04 Mar 2007 09:02 AM |
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What your looking for is either Hambro floor system, Insul-deck or Met-wood pour over. All three will work for your situation and the first and last come engineered for your specifics.
Dave |
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WolfCandy3x
New Member
Posts:56
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| 04 Mar 2007 09:55 AM |
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Hi walltech,
The problem with Hambro is that the actual joist is wayyy to high for my need.
My ceiling would than fall under 8'... I'll check the Met-wood system this morning
Thanks
Francis |
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WolfCandy3x
New Member
Posts:56
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| 04 Mar 2007 10:07 AM |
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Okay Dave I checked it out...
If I look at the FloorSpan System the setup relies on 3 steel joist to support the concrete. My question is: If in this case 3 Steel joist can
do the thing why wouldn't 1x LVL and 36x 12' Wood Floor Joist and rebars do the same ?
I admit that the Met-wood system Would be faster and probably cheaper, i'll check out if the system is available in Canada,Qc
Francis |
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woulfcc
Basic Member
Posts:147
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| 04 Mar 2007 12:22 PM |
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Francis,
Have you looked at speedfloor? Unlike hambro it is only have the depth with the same span. arit.com |
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| Changing How the World BUILDS!<br>Green , Done , Easy<br>Woulf c.c. of Wisconsin |
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walltech
Basic Member
Posts:390
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| 04 Mar 2007 12:59 PM |
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Francis, I don't see any difference with Hambro as far as your ceiling height's go than any other system. Their all going to take up around 16" total. Some set on top of your wall (insuldeck) or like Hambro your taller with your wall and the ceiling drops. Metwood will also take up 16" total and will suspend like Hambro. Of these three systems Hambro will be the least expensive. As far as the wood system you are implying it will have to be engineered, I doubt you'll find an engineer to stamp wood without the cost being higher than steel/ cast in place.
Dave |
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WolfCandy3x
New Member
Posts:56
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| 07 Mar 2007 08:28 AM |
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Walltech. Woulfcc,
Okay guys I'll check into the Hambro and SpeedFloor system... Obviously i'm looking for the least expensive
solution. I do Know that the Hambrop system is available in Quebec, not sure about the speedFloor.
Woulfcc, if I read you right You think that the speedFloor ( 200 ) is strong enough with a -+ 3-4 inch of concrete
to hold 2 regular cars? I'm trying to get my engenier (?) to look it over but he's not too Knowledgable about
both system.
Francis |
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walltech
Basic Member
Posts:390
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| 07 Mar 2007 11:47 AM |
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Francis, apparently Speed floor can do your floor with a 5" joist as stated above? one half of Ham-bro! Actually you floor spans are no problem with a 10" joist with 4" of concrete. The live load for a car deck is only 10# more than a residential floor. Big misconception by most. Call Scott Gruer at Ham-bro direct 1-800-871-8876.
Dave |
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WolfCandy3x
New Member
Posts:56
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| 07 Mar 2007 01:09 PM |
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Hi guy's
I've talk to 2 Hambro sales rep, one stated that 14" joist and 4" concrete would suffice at a 4' spacing
the other says that It can be done with 10" Joist at 4" concrete But at a 24-36" space between
each joist.
Walltech, I assume that what Woulfcc meant to says was "half the size of Hambro's 16" Joist" ( considering that
the 200 Joist are -+7.75 Inch high)...
I'll be contacting Arit.com later this week, or today if I got time. The main thing is that I'M the contractor on this
project and I keep to a minimum outside labor or installation... So Either Hambro or SpeedFloor has got to let
me buy the product without imposing there labor or installer...
Francis |
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walltech
Basic Member
Posts:390
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| 07 Mar 2007 07:55 PM |
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Well I can only suspect that they will allow you to install without supervision but only time will tell. I looked at the charts in my binder today with the rep for the North East and he confirmed a 10" joist. Call him at the number indicated above and get the answers your looking for.
Dave |
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woulfcc
Basic Member
Posts:147
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| 08 Mar 2007 04:33 AM |
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Francis,
What is your location, a local rep. for speedfloor can help you with all of your questions. |
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| Changing How the World BUILDS!<br>Green , Done , Easy<br>Woulf c.c. of Wisconsin |
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WolfCandy3x
New Member
Posts:56
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| 08 Mar 2007 12:46 PM |
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Woulff, Walltech
I'm in the suburbs of Montreal, Qc ( Canada ) And yes I only need to buy the product.
That's why I'm looking for a system that's straightr Forward...
I'll give your guy a call today Dave, But so far everybody seems to say that it's
14" and 4" of concrete... I'll check with your guy...
Francis |
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walltech
Basic Member
Posts:390
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| 08 Mar 2007 07:48 PM |
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Checked with the rep from Indiana today, he says 10" will work also but 12" would be best.
Dave |
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