which ICF blocks are the best?
Last Post 10 Jul 2013 09:30 PM by Hargscarpentry. 23 Replies.
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ConcreteCottageUser is Offline
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21 Nov 2007 09:57 PM
Thanks everyone for your questions/ comments.

There is a whole DAC-ART complex going up in the wine country of Calif. I have a few photos...all the engineering was done and the photos I have show the details of the reinforcement going into the columns on one of the structures. The complex is a system of main house and individual guest facilities, sorta like the real country villa concept a la Spain / Italy. I will make a point of adding those photos w/ a link of the home page of link tomorrow. Also there are two other private residences going up in Calif using DAC-ART..and all the earthquake engineering has been done by Calif. engineers.

Since the blocks can easily be made to any thickness, that facilitates adding extra reinforcement for earthquake and also extra insulation where needed. The manufacturer says he can make ANY R-VALUE the customer requests. He can make them 15" thick w/ 4 " of foam insulation, 20" thick, etc...mine are just 12 " thick w/ 2 " of interior foam insulation. And yes, there are parts of the block that end up sitting directly on the concrete parts of the block below them, but w/ the newer designed blocks , that is a small % of the surface area. There is the thickness of the block (+ or - 3") at the ends that is solid concrete. But the new blocks are very long, not small 30' individual blcoks like my Phase I house was built from. Most of my blocks now are 60+". So that is more hollow space that has the double walled insulation and less % that is solid ends. It also saved $ on setting blocks.

I am building now w/ somewhat older blocks that were poured for a different house. I got them at a discount. That is why I am using them, plus there is a waitng list, so I am happy to have blocks on hand so we can build now. Even my blocks we are building with now have the new bottom style w/ a totally open bottom, and tapered side walls, so I have no solid concrete sitting on another block w/out insulation except a little bit at each end of the 60" block.

I live in a mild climate. My uitilty bills run at max $150 a month in Phase I, off season (spring & fall) is about $45. But we have only elecrtic available for hot water on my stretch of the road (I didn't want to do the burried in ground propane tank and sure don't want to look at one at this narrow lot waterfront location).

So my electric includes HVAC , hot water, electric clothes washer, dryer, dishwasher, 3 computers, flat screen monitors, XM radio running almost 24/7, hairdryers, hotcurlers, electric toothbrush, rechargable stuff like dustbuster, weed wacker,  razor,  flashlight,  phones,  ans. machine, etc...and tons of light at night as I do artwork and don't scrimp on light. My porch lights have 12 bulbs so I have 12 opportunities to replace bulbs B4 I am in total darkness.

The inside of my house is so quiet that I cannot hear anyone approach on my gravel drive unless I open a window to listen for their arrival (If I know they're comin' ) There is only one bird who's call I can hear thru the walls. That is the awesone Osprey....a little smaller than the American Bald Eagle. I have one that hangs out in a dead tree near me. We are sorta frinds now. I go out and whistle to him and he lets me come really close and photo him.
linkIf any other Osprey stops there on that tree to eat a fish, etc... and I hear them and go out to greet him (her) they fly off immediately, so I know it was not 'MY' Osprey, since my Osprey is not afraid of me....but I digress. Point is, Ospreys are *very* loud.
I know that soundproofness does not equate to temp insulation, but just thought I'd mention it.

I just came back from a dinner out, so I have forgotten the other questions since I stared typing a couple hours ago. Will have to post this and then go back and re-read the comments. Not trying to dodge questions :o)

PS--I dont know what that SnapShots code is below, it doesnt show up in the edit view.

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ConcreteCottageUser is Offline
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22 Nov 2007 09:40 AM
I received an email:

Concrete cottage;

 

Hate to be a "doubting Thomas", but do you have any pictures of the waterline halfway up the floor to ceiling?

That would mean the windows were at least 4ft. below water?

It's hard to believe that with the storm surge and hydraulic pressure exerted upon the windows , that your house was a reverse aquarium.

It would mean that ; not only were the windows water proof, but the attachment to the structure was waterproof as well.




I was shocked too. It was a week before we could get down our street and come back to the house. By then the 1/2 " of water had evaporated. There was dried sludge coverering the floor . The water that did get in was  the whole 'soup'  of sewage, etc..from the ripped open dryer vent, so it dried looking like Chewbaca fur of pine needle fragments all  arranged in an aligned pattern  leading to behind the dryer. That is how I quickly figured out what had happened.  There was a 'high water mark' in the inside , really easy to see on our painted white wood paneled  bathroom walls.


On the outside, pine needles and debris were packed into the rubber gasketing at the exact same level across the southern windows about half way up, which corresponds exactly w/ the level of debris deposits in the yard. Look at the photos on this page, notice the place in the yard where the final floating junk was left by receeding water. Our yard slopes the entire length towards the water. It is 400 ft long. (100 ft wide). The boats and floating stuff like coolers were mostly left way up near the street, which if you sight that w/ survey equipment, is about half way up the southern windows on first house. See the photos near bottom of page on link below that show the untouched depris deposits.

There were no 'attachments to the structure' except what I describe below. And note: the shutters were ripped from south wall, see in photos in link below.

Our AC compressor unit was on a DAC-ART pedestal about 4 ft high, I saw it later in the trashed vegetation in the vacant lot next door. It had been strapped down with criss crossing metal straps screwed w/ stainess screws into stainless posts embedded into the top of the DAC-ART base . Base remained unharmed, A/C was history, as was all electric service that had been running in conduit strapped to back of house blocks going up from panel locatred next to A/C unit and into an opening up near the cornice. Copper A/C lines ran up , strapped to the wall as well. All that was totally ripped from the wall. Took over a month to get electricians out to re-build it and then get the inspectors out to re-inspect before they'd turn power back on. As you can imagine, there was a big demand for inspection and for electricians too.

Anyway, back to lot slope, in the larger house I am building now, the steps that will come down in two directions located on the east face of the house (steps foundation is poured, steps not built yet, photos on ConcreteCottage.com) when we measured for footing last week, it was determined that there would be two more steps on the south side than on the steps that go down towards the north due to the slope. If you extend that slope from my water line on outside of south facing windows up to the high water mare at the street side of the lot where all the boats, floating stuff was deposited, you can see that the water was indeed half way up my windows and my house, & was, as you stated, a reverse aquarium. This is main reason I am going w/ Weathershield brand again on new house. I had a fabulous offer from Vetter, but no matter. I have faith in Weathershield. (Vetter is now owned by Weathershield, curiously, they bought them).

AND, compare the new height requirements w/ the old....my new structure has first living floor ABOVE the height of the high water level of IVAN, which was half way up the windows in original structure ....

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greenbuilderUser is Offline
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22 Nov 2007 02:17 PM
A quick reply to this question as I am about to have T'giving dinner with my daughter but I will write a full forum response later. So stay tuned. I am a veteran of the industry and my qualifications come from a degree and background in architecture, general contracting (24th year) as well as 13 years in the ICF industry as a specifier, supplier, consumer, installer, distributor and now as a manufacturing consultant, conference speaker and writer.

Build Block ICF's are the best pre-assembled panel on the market for many reasons. Integra Spec is the best knock down panel by far for wide wall applications. Most of you will never need the wide wall requirements unless your building commercial or in the mountains.

I will explain more on these verified responses later
HargscarpentryUser is Offline
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10 Jul 2013 09:30 PM
We have built with several different blocks, logix. Nudura. Greenblock. Superform. We seemed to have the worst luck with logix. Nudura has a lot of advantages, 8' blocks mean less cuts, 8" webs mean more bracing. We found the webs didn't go close enough to top and bottom of block, creating a slight bulge t horizontal joints. Tying rebar steels time. Greenblock is. Durable block with 1" cut lines. Very nice block to work with. Have to tie rebar splices though. Superform is the strongest and thickest block, 12". Webs are deeper, which allow two bars to be snapped in on top of each other. Red webs make the cavity brighter when pouring.
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