I would be glad to add more details. First, could you explain what your acronyms GL and WC are? Thanks.

General Liability and Workman's Compensation Although it was Chris' post, I think this is what he means.
Paul Stevens

Hi John 

That is a really good question.  We thought we could afford it until we hired a distributor/contractor with Eco-Block now ARXX and three basement walls, no windows, no doors, has cost us over $240,000.00 in damages to repair just to get on with our construction. 

We hired a certified/authorized installer recommended by Curtis Martin with Eco-Block (now ARXX) and this constractor that came highly recommended as being knowlegable had never put up a single block until he attempted ours.   

Please view photos/story of the damages we encountered as a result of ICF. 
Go to this link:  http://www.skytrax.com/ICF

Would we use ICF again?  Not the way the industry is now!    A certified installer with Eco-Block, as per the installer who did our job, goes to a one-day slide presentation to learn to put up block (that includes lunch).   Concrete is very unforgiving - it stays where it goes.  You must know what you are doing. 

Save your money on ICF and get you a good builder/contractor and a concrete man who knows concrete forming - we found one to do the damage control after we fired the ICF contractor.  See the full story on the link above. 

Good luck John!

 

 

DPray,

I was horrified to see these photos....he used fence posts for rebar?  I can only say that we are planning our own ICF install and subcontracting the pour.  If there is a screw up there is no one else to blame except me....and this is the way I like it.  I am saddened for you with this ICF experience.  ICF in my opinion is the most superior wall forming technology we have to date.  This "installer" was held out to you as a "professional" and look at the results.  I can personally attest that I have seen an ICF install in my local area that was also substandard that was also installed by "professionals."  I guess as always it is buyer beware.....I hope things work out for you and your new home.  Certainly a lousy start.  BTW, I am between Quadlock and TF as the wall forming systems....TBD.

Leonard

Dug or others, I am considering these other thermal mass options. A question: Is there any way to combine a layer of gypcrete AND tile over upgraded wood joists such that the two layers are thermally coupled? A crack-guard membrane between the two would make the thermal mass of the gypcrete basically unavailable. Any other ways to get a couple of inches of thermal mass on wood joists?

Dpray, sorry about your difficult experience. I and my GC will do our best to vet the concrete contractor.

John

no matter what building system one uses, there will always be these "experts" that do this kind of crap work.  Unfort. ICF gets a bad rap because of this idiots "work".  I'm sorry that happened, thankfully this is not the norm in our area. 

lkazanov2  Take a look at nudura.  Good product.  IMHO, in the top 3 best systems. 

Appreciate the feedback....our wall layout would make a block system very difficult to apply.  I have  a thread about this.

Leonard

do u have a link to your thread?  I must be hiding in plain sight.

Chris & Paul
Here are the costs you asked about. The block here is also at $4 a sf. Rebar is at $1 a sf for foundations. Concrete is estimated at $100 a yard. Labor is estimated at $80 + per hour. Example: a just completed project with 880 sf of wall was completed by 3 men in 8 hours (slow project because of winter weather). At $2.35 a sf for labor x 880 sf you have $1980 to cover wages of 24 hours (Includes WC & GL). If everyone gets paid the same they earn $82.50 an hour or $660 a day minus the burdens.
We are fast, accurate, and less costly than bare concrete foundations that have not included code required insulation in their bid. We also make a fair, but decent wage and profit on the projects.
I do not have a pump truck included in the cost as I was assuming a below grade foundation. The deductions for rebar in an above grade project will nearly equal the additional cost of a pump truck (approx. $325).
Bracing costs were included, however our bracing system is very simple,fast, and economical.
We meet or exceed code requirements with 6" forms until we get into heavy commercial or industrial projects where 8" is often specified by the architect or engineer. It is easier to use the 8" in these cases rather than try to educate someone on the accepted codes and engineering.

dpray - Your experience was a bad one. Unfortunately there are unqualified individuals that one encounters in every aspect of life. I have seen both ICF, and also many bare concrete formed walls, with more problems than the ARXX/ECO project. The advice to future homebuilders is to take steps to avoid a similar situation. First, get references. Second get a real contract. The contract should include product specifications, accepted tolerances, a start and completion schedule, and a warranty. Do your homework before you decide you can act as a General contractor on your own project. I have to wonder why one would continue a project beyond what had to be a wild, breath taking experience of actually seeing steel fence posts sticking out of concrete footings. After such an experience I don't believe one should have the right to blame the entire ICF industry for what happened afterwards. One bad mechanic does not disparage the entire automobile industry, and one bad contractor should not disparage the entire ICF industry. Still, I am sorry for the bad basement experience. We guarantee our work. as should all contractors, and fix it if it isn't within specifications and tolerances - in writing.

Hans, where do you find a pump truck that costs only $325- when typical costs are $150 per hour with 4 hour minimum? Is tax included or added after? How do you pour a larger basement? do you use the conveyor truck which adds an extra $20 per meter where I come from, which on a good size pour it costs less to use the pump with the straight trucks, because I also save time on labour. How about window buck material and misc. items like screws and anchor bolts, waterproofing? I just can't see how it can be done all in for $8.85, for me anyway, more power to you Hans, with a low price like that you must be really busy, which is really what we al want.\

Paul Stevens

I recently hired a pumper truck out of Russellville, AR to pour my footings. The charge was $110/hr with a 2 hr minimum for an afternoon pour (he has a 4 hr minimum on morning pours). It only took a little over an hour to pour two 10 yd loads and my total bill for the pumper truck was <$300 which included travel, set-up, and per/yd charges.

Well, you guys are doing pretty good on boom pumps, 17m runs me $ 125.00/hr, 32m $ 145.00/hr, 53m $ 235.00/hr. Travel only gets charged one way, must pay $ 35.00 permit fee, plus $ 2.00 per yd.

The $110/hr pumper truck that I mentioned above has a reach of at least 80' based on the dimensions of my project.

JOHN, WE ARE A NC BASED GENERAL CONTRACTOR SPECAILIZING IN ICF CONSTRUCTION. WE HAVE INSTALL PROJECTS ALL OVER NORTH CAROLINA THRU OUT THE PAST TEN YEARS. CAN YOU EMAIL ME YOUR PLANS, OR I WOULD LIKE TO SETUP A APPOINTMENT TO MEET WITH YOU TO GO OVER YOUR PLANS.

PLEASE CONTACT ME AT 336-240-3664 OR 336-787-5717.
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