Question(s) regarding Hobbs ICF...
Last Post 06 Jan 2010 03:14 PM by The Sipper. 26 Replies.
Printer Friendly
Sort:
PrevPrev NextNext
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Page 2 of 2 << < 12
Author Messages
Baldwin2014User is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Send Private Message
Posts:123

--
01 Dec 2009 01:37 PM

Well then I stand corrected.

greentreeUser is Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Send Private Message
Posts:587

--
01 Dec 2009 10:31 PM
Posted By Joseph Farella on 11/21/2009 9:27 PM

You have a lot of issues for me to address.

So here I go.

The amount of EPS foam in the Hobbs VICF in a typical 9’0”wall height is:

- 7 ¼” with exposed studs on each side at an R-value of 4.2 per inch of foam = R-30.

- 8.5” non exposed studs on each side at an R value of 4.2 per inch = R- 35

I dont get your companies math, a 9.25" panel is R 30.45 at its best point, however using your technical panel drawings about 34% of each panel is 4" of foam at R 16.8, so whats the overall R Value? Somewhere around R25-26? Your stucco ready panel adds 1/2" of foam over the entire panel (R 2.1) still less than R30. Seems misleading to a consumer, not to mention your corners, 45 and filler panels are all straight R 16.8 further dilluting the achieved r-value. Add concrete and drywall and your still short, could you please clarify?
greentreeUser is Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Send Private Message
Posts:587

--
09 Dec 2009 09:04 PM
Still waiting to hear if I'm wrong or if your misling people.
Joseph FarellaUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:57

--
10 Dec 2009 08:59 AM
Greentree;

As I have stated before,our panel,thru design, is not constant throughout, so that the R-Value will be a variable number depending on a number of factors,( ie. wall heights and EPS thickness,etc.) Then a R-Value is assigned to the concrete,drywall,etc.)
Because of the uniqueness of our system design, we are having an engineer do the calculations and then post the results on our website with what ever parameters he chooses to assign ,so there is no question.

When one choose's to use the word " misling" ( I believe the word that you are refering to is misleading) it is usually meant to question the intregity and character of the person that it is being used in reference to.

In one of your previous posts you made the statement " I don't get the point of the standards. Something to shoot for ?"
and " A contractor should ( take) pride ( in) his work to ( be) as perfect as possible.published standards are for homeowners,lawyers."

Now, if I  use the same parameters and tone that you have chosen to use on me,  when I  examine closely what has been said:
It would come out like this:
First of all, who else other homeowners buys homes?

 A standard is definied as: a gauge of recognized excellance.
A gauge is defined as : a means of estimating .
To recognize is defined as : being able to distinguish or identify
 And excellance is defined as; as exceptional quaility.
The word pride is defined as: self-esteem.
Self-esteem is definned as: just a opinion of oneself; an overestimate of ones self.
The word perfect is defined as: free of faults

If I interpret correctly what is being stated ,it  would be  that a  homeowner should never have in his possession ,any gauge to be able to identify ,if the work done is of exceptional quality, other than the knowledge that an  installer has such a high opinon of himself that no gauge is nescessary.

How dare a homeowner : who is probably making the single biggest expenditure in his lifetime, have the audacity to even question the pride and integrity of the installer.
Is not his word  and the pride he takes in his work ,good enough?

If the homeowner had a gauge like this, after examining the work that has been done,  the lawyers would make a fortune.

Have I misinterpreted what you have said?
If so, please clarify!

 

greentreeUser is Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Send Private Message
Posts:587

--
10 Dec 2009 11:03 AM
Joe,
Couple things, first your post is absurd but I will reiterate what I meant just for you.

Most importantly your companies R value claims of R30. As you have noted although not entirely directly your panels are not r-30 throughout, so your overall whole wall r-value will not give the consumer an r-30 wall as your website implies. Seems like a big liability to your company. I do question the integrity of a company that misrepresents or leads one to believe something that isn't. It makes things difficult for all involved in construction.

Of course you've misinterpreted what I've said including adding a comma between homeowners and lawyers; when you quote I don't think your supposed to add to the quote at your own free will unless properly indicated.

My belief is performance standards and remediation for out of tolerance work is company specific and should be an article to the contract. Tolerances may change depending on the scope of the work, even budget in the case of very tight tolerances. My point was to say I believe industry association standards are ineffective and too broad to be of any real use, plus you need the means to get there not just a published number. In another post I mentioned a quality manual or program which I feel is a much better route to successfully maintaining standards and establishing a competitive edge which would be company specific. I'm sorry if I offended you or came off as overly aggressive, but these forums should be open for healthy debate to further the construction industry. I should have been more clear apparently.
The SipperUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Send Private Message
Posts:264

--
06 Jan 2010 02:57 PM
I'm surprised that there has been no response to the question regarding the claims of R-30 for the ICF system that is the subject of this thread.

This question was posed by at least 3 or 4 of GBT's regular participants, and it seems to me that it either deserves a response that backs up the claim, or that the claim should be retracted.

There is no intent here to "bash" a specific product, or to impugn anyone's integrity. However, in my mind this is an viable issue since, apparently, there are many folks who make important decisions based on information that is disseminated on these forums.
The Sipper
The SipperUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Send Private Message
Posts:264

--
06 Jan 2010 03:14 PM
I guess that I should qualify my last post by saying that "I'm surprised that there has been no DEFINITIVE response to the question regarding the claims of R-30 for the ICF system that is the subject of this thread". If there has been, I guess that I either missed it or just didn't get it.
The Sipper
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Page 2 of 2 << < 12


Active Forums 4.1
Membership Membership: Latest New User Latest: croccohvacusa New Today New Today: 0 New Yesterday New Yesterday: 0 User Count Overall: 35027
People Online People Online: Visitors Visitors: 205 Members Members: 0 Total Total: 205
Copyright 2011 by BuildCentral, Inc.   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement