ICFhybrid - yeah i am already use to it i have made some good headway since first posting in finding people that could help. makes a huge difference when you start talking to people that are more informed about different options and are willing to think outside the box, the wood box that is... thank for the info

victor - great info, thanks much. sorry wasn't specific enough in above post, i was talking about r-21 fiberglass in a 2x8 wall with 2 inches of sprayed in foam not r-21 windows. your paragraph on the thermal mass of concrete with the icf in long period cold climates i agree with 100%. definitely more benefit in areas where the temps swing more dramatically in 24 hour period. i'm not sure what he cost difference between the sips and 2x6 construction with 2" of eps on the outside would be. haven't been able to get a real "solid" number yet, but i'm making progress with that and i'll post anything that i find relevant. if you go with sips small enough to handle with two people is there any additional concerns/issue with the additional joints? performance drop? price increase? i'm guessing diligence in joint technique would prevent any performance losses. and "supposedly won't settle" with the cellulose is a pretty big roll of the dice in a house i plan on living in indefinitely. not ruling it out yet but i would have to feel pretty confident with it before i tried it. testing info maybe??? i do really like the seismic benefits of icf, on that front it can't be beat. but the cost is an issue. just met with a guy (arxx product) tonight that is going to work up a cost for the basement, garage, and main floor individually so i can see what it comes up too. i really like that fact that both the icf and sips people seem to be very supportive of diy people. in fact they seem to encourage it. it is nice to see contractors trying to help me to save money rather than trying to get every dollar they can out of me. was never planning on doing any of it myself due to time issues during the summer but with the right support i think it would be possible with either of these systems.

so anyone have a cost per square foot, or per board for rigid foam to be added to either icf or standard 2x construction? or even % increase to add it to a wood frame? although living in alaska tends to make all of these numbers high due to shipping cost. i see quadlock has a system for foam board that you can add to an existing house. anyone know how a person deals with window and door trim when doing this? i seemed to have missed it. any other manufacturers have a similar product? does it work as advertised?

thanks as always

pv

PV,

2x6 construction with 2" will be cheaper than SIPs, primarily due to the cost of cellulose vs EPS as an insulator. My finger in the wind costs is the cellulose will cost about 1/4 of what EPS will cost, and I think it'll be hard to make up the difference in installation time.

We did north of 100 linear feet of the SIPs using 4'x9' and 4'x10' blanks without heavy equipment, so handling small boards isn't an issue. They're glued and nailed at each spline, so with a slight bit of care the air infiltration should be at a minimum. Even larger boards have splines built in I believe, as I would imagine it's required to handle the loads from the roof. If you order pre-cuts from the factory then the material costs jumps significantly (in our case more than $2/sqft) so the trick is to minimize cuts from the blanks to reduce on-site cutting and installation time. My crew wasn't familiar with it, so I think it took them about the same time as it would traditional framing, but with experience and a bit of pre-planning the framing time can be reduced, to recover some of the added costs of going with SIPs in material over cellulose.

Dense pak cellulose has been around for a while, but like you, I'm not trusting it. May not be rational on my part, but hey, it's my house.

For windows, we have extra deep (8") jambs; installation isn't much different, except that we should have worked with our EIFS/TAFS vendor which would have saved us a lot of hassles.

Victor
www.ecobuilthome.ca
A 4350sqft cold climate Net Zero Energy initiative

victor - thanks for the numbers. nice to see. it will be interesting to see what i find but i getting about about the same ruff figures that you are. limited numbers for me right now. the wife doesn't like the look for stucco so we probably won't be using the EIFS stuff. probably just some sort of standard siding regardless of what we end up doing.

icfhybrid - thanks for the pm with the numbers. very helpful and a great baseline for me. thanks much.

so what's the answer that i've com up with so far...? you can do anything you want as long as you have the cash! but i think that speaks to life in general more than just to house building! to be continued... enjoy

pv

Just a quick little addition to your research. We have created a system that will let you pour your footings and walls at the same time. This will save significant cash and time, and will leave you with a stronger structure as there is no cold joint.

Bryan Goux is currently building his own home in Kasilof, AK and had great success with the system. Link below

http://www.fab-form.com/fastfootMp/...se.php

Keep up the good work

PV,

For the exterior cladding, whatever that floats your wife's boat.  But do take a look at Dryvit's Terraneo finishes, everyone's that looked at our house so far has been totally surprised that it's "stucco".  We chose the Vesuvius as part of the exterior finish, and it's a good imitation of stone at a lower cost.  Still much more than a lot other options of course, such as vinyl siding, but that's something with a wow factor (at least with the impression of most that I've talked to) that might be pleasing to some.  We've had quite a few unprompted comments regarding the finish, with people wondering what it was and whether it was a real stone finish.

Would love to see some of your numbers when you do get around to it.  I know the geographic area is different, but I'm always curious to find out difference in costs in different regions.

Victor
www.ecobuilthome.ca
A 4350sqft cold climate Net Zero Energy initiative

victor - thanks for the link. i'll show that to my wife. looks pretty darn good from what i could tell.

joseph - thanks for the link and the idea. looks pretty interesting. i'll apologize in advance if the is is a dumb question , but if i understand it correctly, you build your walls with the added necessary height for the foundation, add the adjustment foots, place foundation blocks into excavated area, add the walls to whatever height, poor both walls and foundation, backfill over foundation, then after it has set, poor the basement floor?  is there a place in alaska where this is available?

oh, and yeah, once i have some comparable prices i'll put them together and post it up. hopefully it will be in the next week or so.


pv

The pictures on the terraneo doesn't do it justice; they've mixed in granite chips that has a sheen to it to different daylight conditions...  I'll try to post pictures later when I get a better sunny day.

Victor

PV

You've got the idea for the Monopour down. Essentially nothing has changed between using the Monopour and building a typical two-stage pour. Only that you save significant costs and labour on getting a pump truck for one day instead of two, plus all the associated embodied energy.

You will need to pour your basement floor at a later date, as typically you want your slab to be higher up than your footing. Meaning you will want to be building up your basement slab with gravel before bringing in your pump truck yet again.

The system is so small we shipped it up to Bryan in Kasilof from Vancouver.

Joey

Joey, thanks for the info. these are definitely interesting. as most are, i am always looking to save a few bucks. i am considering doing a lot more work myself than i originally had planned b/c if i don't i will blow through the money we have real fast! houses are not cheap, especially efficient ones. i didn't plan on doing much of anything myself b/c of my lack of experience but the more i talk to people the more confidence i have to doing a few thing myself with the right guidance. some of the contractors i have been talking to have really been encouraging me to do some of the work myself in order to save on labor cost. so that is nice to see. anyway, thanks again. i'll be in contact.

Getting off topic, but here's some picture of the Dryvit Terraneo.  In the darker section, you can see the sheen and the dark chips, both of which are shaved granite chips mixed into the stucco, and the results is a finish that has different sheens to it from different angles and different lighting, and for the most part, has everyone puzzled as to what I've done to the wall, whether it's stone or stucco.  It's a very unique look, and most that have seen it liked it and commented on it.  Price wise, probably between $1-$2/sqft upcharge from the "standard" Dryvit stucco, and we used it as accents in sections of the house and along the trims of the windows.

Victor
www.ecobuilthome.ca
A 4350sqft cold climate Net Zero Energy initiative

Just a comment on "being your own G.C. Not doing any of the work." We often help customers that want to do their own homes with drawings and advice. The first advice I give them is "be your own GC if you enjoy the prospect of saying you did it yourself and you have the time. Don't think you are going to save money. Most GC don't cost you money they save you both money and time. GC's buy better and get better trades at lower prices than most diy could hope to. Most suppliers and trades will always service the GC first and the DIY when they have time. As you say " is my busy time" Take the money you will lose from your real job into the equation and it will probably cost you 10 to 20 % more than you can get the whole thing built for. I have seen time and again DIY homes take five times as long as planned because people don't realize just how much organization goes into a simple house. If the trades show up and the job isn't ready for them they are not in any rush to come back a second time and some bill you for their lost time. If you have the time and you have really good organization skills, have a go at it but don't thing that if a GC can do it for $300.00 a foot I'm going to save 20% of that! What does work for some is to have someone weather the house in for you and than finish the inside. Also make sure your mortgage company and insurer know you are doing it yourself. Also make sure your family has bought into this plan 'cause you sure don't want to pay a divorce lawyer.

fbbp - thanks for the advise as i have considered these same things. i am getting bids from a number of different contractors for each aspect of the house but am also going to give the entire project to a GC and see what the cost difference will be. if it is a relatively small difference then it will go to a GC. i'm trying to be open minded about any and all options so as not to be blinded by my own biases. the forest through the trees thing. i am in business for myself and definitely understand the value of my time doing what i know how to do, which is not building houses. but we are in a fairly unique situation as we are starting with about 250k without having to deal with a mortgage or insurance company. although i will get some sort of construction insurance as a cya for both materials and injuries. the land is already paid for and i have a good friend doing the dirt work. we not under any type of covenant which is really nice. (unlike my sister who is being fined b/c they didn't get their house finished fast enough after breaking ground) also, we are not on a specific time frame b/c we are living in a house that is just fine and don't have to sell it before we finish the new one. although once we start the structure will be enclosed before winter at a minimum. i would like to have heat in it also but we will see. actually i want to be living in it by winter but that may or may not be realistic. 3-3.5 months before building can begin and then the s**t really hits the fan! right now our main concern is our desiring eyes may be larger than our limited budget... but we will see where the first cost estimates come in at. i may be paying the house designer again to scale the house down to an affordable size. and most importantly, as you stated, the wife and i have discussed this pretty thoroughly and both know there will be stressful times. b/c of our situation we are trying to make this as fun of an experience as possible. divorce is not an option!

In reply tp FBBP comments check www.ownerbuilderbook.com. I have built my own house in 1980 and will build a new house as soon as I sell my current home.

Ditto FBBP, I have never seen a DIY save anything.

if it is a relatively small difference then it will go to a GC.

Have you considered hiring a Construction Manager instead of a GC? A CM handles the subs and bidding (essentially the paperwork) on the project, freeing you up to do more of the direct work and supervision on your own. If you get one with a lot of experience, they are a very valuable reference for the homeowner who may not have hands on experience with everything in their build. Find one that works on a flat fee. They can often save you more than the fee you pay them.

yeah, i have heard this from a number of people, usually GCs.  but i have also heard the opposite from just as many other people.  hence the reason i am keeping all options open.  we'll see how the initial numbers come back.  i hadn't thought of using a CM but will check into.  although i'm not really planning on doing a lot of the physical labor myself, hopefully.

Looks like your going in with your eyes open. That the main thing! Hope you prove me wrong because some people do actual have a very good experience building their own home. It is usually the ones that have taken the time to think it through to the end and realize they will be committing a lot of time to the project. Good luck!

I think running as your own GC can work either way, really depends on yourself.  I for one had no experience in the industry, but looks like I'm managing to pull it off "unscathed", and I've confirmed with a few experienced builders in the area in terms of total cost/sqft for a traditional build, and I'm fairly sure I'm ahead by a good margin.  The one thing going for me here is I'm in a major city where I do have a wide selection, so I have the benefit of cost comparision between trades, as well as finding substitutes if the trade doesn't work out.  On the other hand, I can certainly appreciate FBBP's point of view, as I can see the numerous things that can go wrong and that can cost a boatload of money.

The one thing that did sway my decision beforehand was that there were no GC's that had all the expertise of handling these various amounts of material.  If this was a typical stick frame and no upgrades, I think most GC's will be far more competitive, but because of these "unknowns" many of them might be inclined to buffer some wiggle room, as well as buffer some time (which equals money) to deal with the extra issues involved.

FWIW.

Victor
www.ecobuilthome.ca
A 4350sqft cold climate Net Zero Energy initiative

absolutely. i do truly appreciate FBBP opinion. didn't mean to sound like as ass in the previous post. i'm trying to keep my mind open and do realize the amount of time it is going to take. hell, just the planning is taking up a huge amount of time, and i've barely got started. then again, my theory/plan is to do as much as humanly possible before ground is even broke, to help avoid issues during the building process. i figure the more i have my ducks in a row, the smoother things will go. plus it will be easier to handle the unexpected things that ARE going to pop up. my time is decidedly worth something and that will be taken into account when more solid estimates start coming in. the one advantage i think i have is i do know and am friends with a number of individual spanning the construction fields. we'll see if that ends up helping or hurting...

in other news, today i am leaning towards going with an offset 2x4/2x3 wall for the main floor and garage. still need to do some checking but i think for the money i can get the type of enclosure i'm looking for without the expense of icf or sips. although there are other advantages to both of those options. still planning on icf for the basement.