Jack, you have only been given sound advice by several on this forum who are only trying to look out for your best interest. There is no financial gain for us. For you to respond by calling our comments incorrect or unture is really disconcerting. Please either take the advice, consult with professionals in your area, or go at it alone with a 4" wall and best of luck to you. For you to continue with this tread with your rediculous responses and/or continued confusion is really getting old. I for one am delighted that you live on the West Coast, please live there for a very long time!

My mistake and I apologize. From now on I will accept "gut feeling" and "trust me I'm an expert" and "hissy fit" and "it's in that darn document for sure" as a valid specification.

renangle there was one bit of sound advice in this thread regarding the type rebar to use in seismic zone D2 by the way and I am not beyond taking your sound advice, when it is backed up by worthwhile specifications.

well since architect's plans are always 100% correct without the need for a contractor to ever think outside of the box, you're fine. I am sure that your experience is all you will need. Best of luck with your build I am sure if you follow the plans and read the book it will go off without a hitch as the book is never wrong or need to over build.

With that I feel we can end this thread and move on with our lives.

Jacktca, My friends ren, arkie, dmaceld and others have tried to help you. I've read in amazement that they keep trying despite your efforts to disuade them -- which makes them better folk than me. Nevertheless, I have given your situation some thought and have found the best solution. You mentioned you were 1 mile from the fault -- determine a perperdicular line inland to the fault, and move a of 100 miles. Build there. Regards.

Posted By jacktca on 26 Mar 2011 12:28 PM
By the way icf4life should be icf4thegoodlifeoftheowneroftheicfcompanywhoisshaftingyoubysellingyouveryexpensivestyrofoamforoutrageousprices.

We have been a stick builder alot longer than we have an ICF builder. One thing that I know for fact is that our profit margins are better on stick framed const than they are on ICF. Secondly, everyone of our clients that have built ICF will tell you that they have or are in the process of recouping  the added cost of ICF over stick built(which is usually 3-5% for us). Ammortized over 30 years turns out ICF is a pretty solid investment. So the reality is that it is better for the homeowner than it is me when you look at economically. These are facts Jack-not debatable.

So dont build ICF jack, that is your right, but to come on here and attempt to blame your problem on the ICF industry is ridiculous. The only reason I even give a response is so that someone coming on here for the first time looking for info on ICF does not get confused or believe any of this ignorance.

Jack,

Where is your architect located? Have you met and talked with him face-to-face? Does he know exactly where you are building?

Jack,

If you are bound and determined to build this house out of 4" ICF, my local Lite-Form distributor has a large stock of the 4" Lite-Form ties in his warehouse that he wants to get rid of because few people here use them. These are designed to accommodate 2" thick panels of foam on either side of a 4" concrete core. These could probably be shipped UPS or LTL carrier fairly reasonable and then you could get your foam from the local supplier. If interested, shoot me an email and I will send you his contact info.

TexasICF no offense but you're off on your assumption. 100 miles away there might be a fault directly underneath the house that nobody even knew about! Ha! Gotcha there. Seriously, earthquakes are chaos. Each one is different. Each one is a surprise. I was at a happy hour for professionals in Santa Monica Friday night. One person I met there was a structural engineer. I ran this 4" core controversy by him. Asked him what he thought. He said it's a give/take. More concrete will give a structure more strength but it will also give the structure more mass. Depending on how the ground moves that could be a good thing or a bad thing. He said one can build like the military, 30 inch thick walls with rebar, and still not be safe.

icf4life my architect gave me the same spiel. I think there are something like 2,500,000 houses in foreclosure these days. Not too many new construction projects going on. Why? I told you I had a ski lodge in Eastern Europe. Out there most men build for themselves and build using their own cash money. When this mortgage disaster unfolded the country of Iceland went bankrupt because their banks were the source of US construction money. Some of these Eastern European countries, being in the European Union, had to lend Iceland hundreds of millions of dollars to bail them out. The US housing situation was sustainable only when using somebody else's money. I'm a high-tech professional and I have to tell you I do the work myself on weekends. Hiring contractors I end up paying them much much more than I make. The difference being I can do the work once or twice with a contractor and pretty much pick up what they do and then do it myself. There are some small things I still need them or their equipment for but that can be taken care of in a morning or day or two. If they had to do my job it would take years and years to learn. Bottom line is my job has foreign competition, theirs cannot be outsourced to a much less expensive foreign country. Also, I earn good money as a high-tech professional but I'll never get rich off of it. Real estate and construction will bring you financial independence. I'm financially dependent on the owner of the small company who I work for who makes 10000x more than I do. That said, the guy who builds for himself cares more about quality and the effects of his labor. That's why I picked ICF's. You're doing this cost/benefits equation because you're putting yourself in the shoes of the anonymous investor. That might be the case, but it won't be until the foreclosure supply runs out. Don't hold your breath.

arkie6 let me know where you are and I might be interested. My email is jacktca at gmail.com I fear however that LiteForm ties can only be used with Lite-Form panels. Those are $2.25/sq. ft. + shipping from Timbuktoo. Reward blocks which my architect specified are $16 and I'm going to do a marathon road trip to Colorado with my trailer to pick up 11 pallets that I will still need.

From another barrel. I am building a 10x12 on the side, an extra bedroom if you will, for which I need no permit or plans. I looked at Strata but they price things to be 10% less expensive than ICF construction. Get lost!!! Anyone can make a mistake but only a real fool makes the same mistake twice. There's a guy 45 minutes down the highway with a styrofoam shop. Sells custom thicknesses, densities, sizes. 2" thick 4x8 sheets cost $12 for example = $0.75/sq. ft. I'm thinking of doing the extra 10x12 using Jack's ICF technology. In between 2x4's insert 14.5"x3.5"x8' pieces of styrofoam. Jack's ICF is a hybrid of wood frame/ICF without the concrete. One of the deficits of the Strata system as I saw it was a lack of stiff/tough fiber to latch siding/stucco/drywall/roof onto. Also I'm not sure how the whole Strata structures hold onto the ground when there's a good wind. They claim to be wind resistant but don't show how they connect the structure to the ground.

jacktca,

I do not work for StrataUS nor benefit from the sale of their system.  But to help other people reading this forum, let me give a link to how the StrataUS wall is anchored to the foundation.  See ESR 1638 http://strataus.com/us/pdf/esr.pdf    Look at page 7 (last page - can use Ctrl+End keys) for a drawing covering this detail.  Strata may have other newer ways now but this is the only one that I have seen that is approved by the code.  Whether this detail is sufficient for severe earthquake regions is beyond me but I think it will work in high wind areas since their structures can be built for 170 mph wind speeds.  See http://strataus.com/us/pdf/testing.pdf for various testing results which includes earthquakes.  I think the technology is simple enough that a handy homeowner could build his own home.

I would not hesitate to do the work myself since the Strata system is mostly air.  And since I would have no reason to skimp on materials or labor for my own home I would follow instructions in the installation manual.

Although some owner/builders have used ICF to build their own home, I do not think most homeowners have the necessary skill set to work with concrete.  By having at least one experienced person on the job can greatly reduce the chance for serious errors.  I love concrete but it can be very unforgiving when something goes wrong.

Since this thread refuses to die a natural death, I think it's important to periodically mention for the benefit of those new to the ICF industry that Jack's relation with reality is primarily through his rear view mirror. He is intent on turning this forum into his personal rant/blog. I would suggest reading this purely for its entertainment value -- kind of like following the adventures of Charlie Sheen.

In Canada there's a company called Polycrete which saves money to increase it's profit by hiring clowns to represent their company. I see one of them is pretty active on this forum.

Alton, you are correct. It would appear from the illustration on page 7 of the manual you quoted that Stratus relies on 1'6" of dirt to hold the wall in place on the outside, and a wedge between a foundation and an internal slab on the inside. You worry about earthquakes. That's what Hilti foam or Great Stuff is for. To fill in the crack between the concrete slab and the styrofoam wall when it moves or after a good rain I didn't read that whole manual. Maybe somebody who did can say something about the compaction and soils reports if any are needed for this kind of thing? Also, the way they do the roof gives me the willies. They must have a scaffolding brace underneath and let's hope the crease between the roof and the wall never cracks. If it does, you'll need to put the scaffolding braces back in to fix it. You say a handy homeowner could build his own home with this technology. As I wrote in an earlier post, this styrofoam technology is doomed to failure in my opinion because these tiny companies do not compete on price in order to increase market share. They compete on very high priced brilliant technology that earns them niche markets. Stratus is not going to price their technology in such a way that they would become a big successful company. This owner/inventor wants to earn as much money as he can. He thinks, like most other styrofoam manufacturers, that his genius novel way of doing things is going to prevail. Let's summarize what this guy invented that somebody can't do themselves, or in the case of another company copy and re-patent. I can buy styrofoam and set it up the same way and spray it with some sort of hard stucco like surface. Don't need Stratus for that. If Stratus starts taking off another company can say "good idea, glad I thought of it". Reformulate the glorified stucco mix. Claim that it does not infringe on Stratus' patent because the mix is different, actually better. There you have it. Slight differences to the original formula is how most companies get around patents. Much easier to do with a liquid mixture than an esoteric rail or lock or fastener that the tiny ICF manufacturer's usually patent.

Now, I was hoping that somebody would poke holes in Jack's ICF technology. 2x4's filled with 3.5" thick 14.5" wide custom cut styrofoam inserts 3' and 5' high. I wrote about it in detail in an earlier post. It would have most of the benefits of Stratus' light weight, with the added benefit of easy and simple and reliable floor, wall, and roof fastening.

I think Jacks ICF Technology is a fine idea and you should employ it to build your house.

BrucePolycrete: Please check your PM inbox. There's a control for this purpose in the lower section of the green bar at the top of this forum's web page.

Are you still there, Bruce? If so, please check your PM inbox one more time.

Has anyone seen data from any source other than Strata that foam + 1/4" of fibercement is as strong as more conventional methods?

Exactly my worry.  See with Jack's ICF ==> IF (without the C=concrete) technology you don't have to wonder about that.   It complements rather than replaces conventional methods.

The little interaction that I had with Strata went like this:  "As for the architecture we handle that on our end. Our cost in comparison to ICF is 10+ percent less expensive. As for equipment, we could use local stucco/plasterers or since your so close we could send our crew from Phx and knock it out in a day or two."

Notice the use of pronouns like "we, our".   I get the impression you don't need answers to questions like that because your job is to make out the downpayment check.   They do the rest themselves.   They might not be kidding about knocking it out in a day or two.    The architect's brother quoted me a price of $90,000 for an 800 sq. ft. house built with ICF's.   So I would guess you're looking at $81,000 for a Strataus house.   Not bad for a day or two of work!