For those who have not seen this; below is a link to a job that had 17' high Amvic ICF walls, braced with 2x4's and the Zont brackets.

http://www.fab-form.com/fastfootMp/...epCove.php

This site was a huge challenge to build on. And both the contractor and homeowner are very happy with the end results. I would like to hear your guys' thoughts.

You should thank God that Rube Goldberg monstrosity worked out.

Somehow they build skyscapers with bamboo scaffolding in Asia. I started in this business when there was no metal bracing, so I think this looks like a good inovation. I've seen jobs done with metal bracing that would make you cry. So a system using 2x4's doesn't bother me

Looks like a versatile system. The only concern I have is the additional work for walkways/railings. Our MOL inspectors are fairly picky and the other style(s) bracing has it "built in". Maybe a future version of the same thing will have it? I like the thought of not hauling around those big cumbersome braces....

I can see that the carpenters involved here have a lot of previous concrete forming experience.
Rebar placement is excellent.
Use of line pump intelligent.
Good work !

We had a Guy put up a Polycrete basement last year, and even thought he had been trained and had been on a previous job that was done the right way, he decided to save money on the equipment rental and just use 2x4's for bracing. Oh, and he put some on the inside of the walls and some on the outside. Oh, and he only put them up every 7 feet or so along the wall. And he cheaped out and didn't use any of that annoying starter track. Heck, he didn't even glue the icf to the footer. Then the silly fool didn't use a consistent running bond, but in at least one place had five courses with vertical seams lined up -- that's ten feet of vertical seams.
Know what happened? Nothing. He ended up with nice straight and plumb walls.It's the truth. We don't recommend it though.We recommend following the installation manual. Message me and I'll send you the picture.

This whole jobsite might look confusing to some people.....especially BruceonCrack..... but the basics are here.

SAFE, wide paths to work when pouring, although the lack of cleats on the outside verts holding the horizontal decking concerns me.
Building codes in Canada have maintained rules for wooden site-built scaffolding since they started publishing.... and they still apply.

These carpenters formed step footings over many changes in elevations and maintained the integral interlock of the Amvic block
WITHOUT any vertical seams. That took some time and skill.

The walls are well supported,braced, and it looks to me that very little straightening would be required during the pour.Good.
The end wall bulkheads are adequately supported, wrapped and strongbacked.
The rebar stirrups and horizontals are placed properly.
Bearing plates are ready to set.
Line size looks to be 2 1/2 inch not 4 inch..although 2 inch would have been easier to manhandle around on the scaffold

These carpenters worked with what they had and pulled off a successful pour. Great :-)

The link is not working for me. I have been thinking about building an ICF house for a few months but the cost of the proper bracing is driving me away from ICF.

Since the inside walls are made out of 2x4s, can't you build these walls, number them and attach them to the ICF walls, braze them, pour concrete, let it cure, remove walls and then use them as interior walls? Has anyone done this or is it too messy?

but the cost of the proper bracing is driving me away from ICF.

Can't you rent it from the distributor?

Or someone?

Posted By Giovanni on 02 Oct 2011 07:53 PM
The link is not working for me. I have been thinking about building an ICF house for a few months but the cost of the proper bracing is driving me away from ICF.

Since the inside walls are made out of 2x4s, can't you build these walls, number them and attach them to the ICF walls, braze them, pour concrete, let it cure, remove walls and then use them as interior walls? Has anyone done this or is it too messy?

Did you see this thread?

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Fo...fault.aspx

No clue what happened with the old link.

Here it is again, http://www.fab-form.com/zontBracing...epCove.php

Pretty powerful project.

Link to a discussion on this site regarding using the same system for stem walls. http://greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums...fault.aspx

Awesome links. I just need to get a good deal on ICF blocks to proceed. About two months ago a company in TN had a blow-out sale on Amvic (I think) and they were selling the blocks for $8 a piece. Unfortunately they sold about 300 blocks by the time I called and only had 45 and 90 degree blocks for sale for $5 a piece.

You might consider checking with Lite-Form if you have a distributor in the area and are the DIY type. I'm looking at a quote sheet here from Lite-Form dated 1/21/2010 and the price for the components to make an 8"x48" block with 2" 2# density EPS on each side with 8" concrete core is $5.58. This is their standard pricing that you can get quoted online but does not include shipping or sales tax.

THank you, I sent them an email to inquire about the prices. If the prices are close to what you were quoted last year then it could be a good deal.

Good luck finding a deal like that again. The cheapest blocks I found were Fox from Menards. I've heard horror stories from the pump truck guys from the Owens Corning ICF setup. The XPS foam just doesn't seem to work as well as EPS, according to them. At recent job they pumped, they said they had to pump in 1 foot lifts because the foam was bulging and moving all over the place. The point: you get what you pay for. I wouldn't go with the cheapest, just because they're cheap.

I completed a project with fox Blocks this summer, the pump guy said it was as good a pour as any, we had no problems!

Posted By slowroadster on 05 Oct 2011 07:25 PM
I completed a project with fox Blocks this summer, the pump guy said it was as good a pour as any, we had no problems!

I didn't mean to imply that fox is "cheap".  It looks like a good product.  A few around here have used them with no problems as well.  Mostly insulated crawl spaces, but nevertheless, no problems.  The cheap comment was really regarding getting ICF blocks for 5-8 bucks a piece. 

I did my own extension about 7 or 8 years ago. Used 2x4 and 2x6 for support but not for scaffolding. Had the 2x's inside and out about 8 feeet apart and at all corners. Tied the braces togather with wire going thru the block and around the braces. used regular pipe scaffolding inside the building to walk on. braced the upright braces top and bottom to keep them plumb. Work go with no problems. 3 seperate pours each about 10 feet tall.

I did something similar to the reference link above.  Here's a photo of the 2x4 bracing in action:




Note the turnbuckles.

Another view:




I reused the 40 strongback brackets on the 1st floor walls and eventually all the lumber was consumed in the interior framing.


The ICF is by TF System.

--Clark

What kind of window bracing is this? It is a solid square piece of steel. I would assume this is removal once the concrete is poured.

Go to "residential", then chose "Flagstaff", and it is picture #3:

Window Bracing