Hello Texas. Sorry if I'm tardy in speaking to this question, but I don'r much follow the discussion. About 12 years ago I visited the ARXX plant in Wichita (in those days I worked pretty exclusively with ARXX/Bluemaxx). The company people drew attention to the ghosting of their form's fastening strips through the synthetic stucco (often mis-named EFIS). 'We'll have to do something about that', was the comment. This is not an issue with the NUDURA forms. FM

Ghosting is not an issue with Polycrete either, since the steel web and galvanized steel fastening strips are recessed 1-1/2" below the surface on the 2-1/2" thick Big Block 1600, and 3/4" below the surface on the 1-3/4" thick Big Block 1200.

Other than Polycrete, I am not aware of any Type II EPS ICFs that is more than 1.35 pcf, but I am anxious to learn about them. Big Block is 1.5 pcf and Flex 850 is a full 2 lbs.

'Ghosting' is no longer an issue with the ARXX forms either. Since we wanted to finish our home with Acrylic Stucco, we used ARXX Prime forms with concealed webs on the outside and exposed on the inside and didn't experience this problem at all. ARXX actually doesn't recommend the use of exposed webs if you want to finish your home with stucco, and they let us know that when they completed our estimate. But the exposed webs on the interior made it really easy to attach our drywall. Overall, the forms were very sturdy and easy to use (my husband and I did a lot of the work ourselves). We hired an ARXX on-site trainer at a very reasonable cost to help us stack, brace and pour. By the time he left, we were completely confident we could finish the build, and we did. We love our ARXX Home!

"Price is not a factor" Then hire it done, and let the ICF contractor use their favorite. As long as you have 6" of concrete, with 2.5 inches or more of EPS and full height attachment points.

Posted By BrucePolycrete on 16 Jan 2012 10:18 AM
Ghosting is not an issue with Polycrete either, since the steel web and galvanized steel fastening strips are recessed 1-1/2" below the surface on the 2-1/2" thick Big Block 1600, and 3/4" below the surface on the 1-3/4" thick Big Block 1200.

Other than Polycrete, I am not aware of any Type II EPS ICFs that is more than 1.35 pcf, but I am anxious to learn about them. Big Block is 1.5 pcf and Flex 850 is a full 2 lbs.

Well.  Granted, ghosting is not really an issue for ICF's at all and I doubt an issue for Polycrete. 

Neither are blowouts.  Although for some reason, you bring them up a lot -- they haven't been a problem in the industry since the last generation of blocks about 7-10 years ago.  BTW, 1600 psf is only 11.11  psi -- not really all that impressive since most of the leading blocks (if not all) will hold at this pressure.  If I can pour 4' per hour to 15' and vibrate hard every time what difference does it make anyway?   Even if I could pour 25 feet -- which I have done -- why not pour to 15' and not go to all the trouble of putting in holes pour (to not dirty rebar) and holes to vibrate (my longest vibrator is 14').  

It does sound like you need some long screws to attach Polycrete to sheetrock or bricktabs.  And why is Polycrete still not reversible?  Okay my error, since this post is not about Polycrete, why not start your own post -- e.g. Polycrete vs. the market and I will be sure to participate as may others.    It is via the sideline stuff like this that this site is not as valuable to someone trying to learn something about ICF as it might otherwise be.  Nevertheless, just as an FYI by definition all Type II EPS starts at 1.35 - 1.79 pcf and almost every ICF in the industry is in this category.  Regards.

Hi Tex. Since you brought it up, most ICF available in North America today will withstand about 800 lbs per sqft of lateral pressure. If you pour more than 2' - 4' per hour into that form, the result will be scalloping, bulging and (yes) blow outs.Polycrete is reversable, you just can't install Big Block upside down. But then again, why would you want to? It's a commercial grade ICF that yields very little (1%) waste. Part of the reason is that you are able to use cut-offs elsewhere on the job. If your cut off has a cross tie, you can re-use it. It really is that easy.

Polycrete is radically different from the residential grade ICFs on the market, and TexasICF has neither used it nor seen it used. He has never been on a Polycrete jobsite, but he's very sure that he knows all there is to know about ICF. He's a bright guy and he's right about one thing, though: You do need a fairly long screw to attach brickties to a Polycrete Big Block wall. 2-1/2 inches is about right -- Self-tappers. Hex-heads work best for bracing. Misinformation from misinformed (and uninformed) folks is the only real problem with this fine forum. Stick to the facts, boys. Like they used to say back in English 101, "Write what you know." Regards.

" Stick to the facts, boys. Like they used to say back in English 101, "Write what you know." Regards."

What a great idea! Maybe one should inform Bruceploycrete that concrete is Placed - not poured. Furthermore as TexasICF stated; most blowout problems have been adressed with a more consistent quality of EPS Block as well as the fact that more experienced installers place concrete in them. We must stand as an industry (ICF) and not as an individual Company toting "our block is better than yours"!!!

Donner, if all ICFs were the same, you'd have a point. However, when a radical innovation comes along, its important to celebrate.You don't want to be the guy who sells horse drawn wagons complaining that a Ford F-350's no good for hauling hay because you have to put diesel fuel in it. Take a look at the technology, Donner. You may be surprised.

Donner, if all ICFs were the same, you'd have a point. However, when a radical innovation comes along, its important to celebrate.Tex is like the guy who sells horse drawn wagons complaining that a Ford F-350's no good for hauling hay because you have to put diesel fuel in it. Take a look at the technology, Donner. You may be surprised.

Polycrete - you speek of a radical innovation...I have taken the time to visit your website, and I see no radical innovation. As far as I can tell you use a wire insert as your "tie"; no different than the old polysteel system (which by the way; has never bosted to be far superior to any of the rest - but in fact supported this industry as an ICF first - and it's own version second). A radical innovention might be considered a "lopsided ICF" - using a cementious board on the inside (i.e. viroc, Hardie, Mgo board) on the inside, using Neopor (to replace EPS) on the outside. I have built my first ICF Building here in the USA back in 1991; and have been involved in this industry since 1982 in Europe; trained by a firm that has built their first ICF House in 1961.

This thread addresses the differance between Arxx and Nudura. I have had the privilage of attending and consulting the pour (placement of Concrete) of both; as well as one of Quadlock recently. Although we have our own ICF System (Isomax); in ouer 20+ Years; I can testify firsthand, that when poured properly - there were no concerns regarding any problems or fears of which you propose. My highest respect for quality hereby goes to these aforementioned companys.

One further comment: For a number of years; the ICF Industry has honored extraordinary ICF structures at the World of Concrete show in Las Vegas. As an attendee this year (jan24th -27th; 2012) I shall pay close attention as to Polycrete's submittal.

I keep getting sucked into these arguments with people who have an ax to grind or another agenda. I am just offering information, and the market makes the decisions with regard to better or not better. Many on this forum have substantial investments of time and dollars in existing ICF technology so they fear innovation and deny the shortcomings of the industry's product offering. The fact that ICF represents a minuscule portion of the construction industry is indisputable testimony to the market's perception.

When Henry Ford came along, the buggy makers told him, "Mr. Ford, that automobile thing will never catch on. What you really ought to do is figure out how to breed a faster horse."

Feel free to message me offline for more information.

Bruce,

A radical innovation would be something like ICFs or a wheel or AC electricity or something of that sort. Polycrete ultimatelly is really not that different from the rest. I honestly don't see anything radically innovative about Polycrete. Sure there's innovation in it but nothing radical. Maybe start a thread "Polycrete vs. the World" and you will see.

This thread is about Arxx and Nudura.

Thank you,

Posted By Baldwin2012 on 18 Jan 2012 12:47 PM
Bruce,

A radical innovation would be something like ICFs or a wheel or AC electricity or something of that sort. Polycrete ultimatelly is really not that different from the rest. I honestly don't see anything radically innovative about Polycrete. Sure there's innovation in it but nothing radical. Maybe start a thread "Polycrete vs. the World" and you will see.

This thread is about Arxx and Nudura.

Thank you,

I'd like very much to start that thread, but the administrators would throw me off for advertising. A better approach would be for those who have used Polycrete Big Block and have complaints to start their own thread.

Posted By Donnerwetter on 18 Jan 2012 04:26 AM

... As far as I can tell you use a wire insert as your "tie"; no different than the old polysteel system... A radical innovention might be considered a "lopsided ICF" - using a cementious board on the inside (i.e. viroc, Hardie, Mgo board) on the inside, using Neopor (to replace EPS) on the outside.

Two quick final points:

(1) The 4mm wire cross tie is not an insert, it is attached by means of a hinged connection to the 4mm welded wire mesh inside the EPS panel (that's where the remarkable strength comes from -- a patented innovation).

(2) Neopor IS EPS, its grey colored because it contains a graphite component to supply additional R- Value and possibly fire resistance. (Someone want to verify that?)

Bruce,

I'm sure the administrators would prefer you start a thread like "Polycrete Installation" or "Polycrete vs. CMU" or whatever -- rather than continue to jump unrelated data into topics. Adding data across the ICF forum without thought as to what the topic is ultimately devalues the site to anyone trying to learn something.

Let me know if/when you have a job in Texas and I will check it out. I don't expect anything eye opening though because I regularly place concrete (without problems) to 15-20 feet in a day.

where are you building your house?