Working on siding our ICF build, and at the cold joint between the main level and the basement walls I get a lot of water leaking in in a few location. It runs through the wall and drips down the inside of the basement wall. You can see it on the main floor subfloor as well as it gets very slightly damp along the foam edge. There are a few spots it does it at. I have tried caulking and taping the joint but this does not seem to stop it. There is a continuous horizontal web piece at the top of the form that I feel is collecting the water and acting like a gutter to direct it through the joint. Ive tried caulking and taping the top of this as well. I am thinking about cutting off that strip and recaulking the joint. This area is not yet sided. I am also getting some minor leaking around the bottom of a patio door. The head is flashed off with a piece of 6" metal drip regleted into the foam above the door, taped and caulked. The side of the window flange is taped off as well with 3M wall weather 4" flashing. It is leaking around the lower corner of the sill. It is wet behind the flashing tape. This area has some siding on it, but not above/all the way up yet. Has anyone had issues like this before? And thoughts to fixing it?

lzerarc - which block did you use? Knowing the type of block helps to predict the water path. Are you applying the siding directly to the ICF or are you providing a rain screen?
Patio doors can be a real pain depending on how their threshold is formed. Often it is not getting behind the flashings at top but curls around the edge of the threshold and comes in at floor level. You might try sealing the underside of the threshold to the foam with duct sealing mastic.

How did you wrap/dampproof the below grade portion of the wall? Wouldn't it perhaps be better to extend that dampproofing material above that basement-mainfloor cold joint that is leaking?

Was there a bunch of crap (word used loosely) inside the wall between basement and main floor pour? Things such as foam cuts, tools, tape measures, snow/ice, etc. Laugh as you may, but things end up falling in the wall and get forgotten about, which can cause this.

its a Hobbs vertical form. I certainly do not want to bash the system as I think its a good system and installed very quickly and easily. I do not want the thread to head in that direction since I have no regrets in my choice. The siding is being applied directly to the vertical furring strips. However the strips stand proud of the foam by rouhgly 1/16", so it creates some drainage plain naturally. As for the door, you are exactly right. Its at the threshhold line, so I can try sealing that up better too. The walls were very clean, I know cause I built them all. The vertical forms made it VERY easy to remove any piece that may have fallen inside. Everything was inspected prior to the pour to make sure all is well in that area.

Is it possible that the main floor windows (or top of doors) are not sealed properly? The water may be entering around the W&D and draining through the pourous concrete until it find a way out on the interior (which happens to be at the cold seam in this case).

I have seen one case where the footings were showing water on the inside, but once the exterior finish was completed, the problem was fixed. Turns out driving rain was getting through seams in exterior EPS and draining though concrete until the bottom of the wall. The exterior finish (stucco in that case) simply sealed off the driving rain. No issues on this house 2 years later.

in the main areas its leaking through the joint, there are no windows or doors. I will try and take some pics to post this afternoon. Pics help way more than words do.

Posted By lzerarc on 17 May 2013 10:40 AM
its a Hobbs vertical form. I certainly do not want to bash the system as I think its a good system and installed very quickly and easily. I do not want the thread to head in that direction since I have no regrets in my choice. The siding is being applied directly to the vertical furring strips. However the strips stand proud of the foam by roughly 1/16", so it creates some drainage plain naturally. As for the door, you are exactly right. Its at the threshold line, so I can try sealing that up better too. The walls were very clean, I know cause I built them all. The vertical forms made it VERY easy to remove any piece that may have fallen inside. Everything was inspected prior to the pour to make sure all is well in that area.

lzerarc - One thing we all figure out after we have done a few different ICF styles is that they all have their pros and cons. Almost all of them a way better then most other building methods (;=))

In this case I think you are on the right track. The spline is acting as a gutter. In all likelihood you left the concrete of the first pour a few inches below the spline so the cold joint is nice and handy for the water to cross over to the inside. But on top of that I suspect you are getting some rain drive in behind the vertical splines which are then draining into the horizontal one thereby by passing the caulking.

As ICFBdr mentioned it will probably go away when the siding is install. On the other hand any rain getting by the siding (and it does) will still catch on the spline. If you cut the spline off you will solve probably 80% of the issue.

If you want to go a step further, rout a 1/2" gap just above the remaining part of the spline after you cut off the face. Get some drip flashing bent up that has a 5/8" standup on the top. You will have to tilt it to put it in but when you force it down flat the extra 1/8" should bite into the foam. Now any water getting behind the vertical splines will be caught and forced to the outside. I would foam up the rest of the gap but if you don't you will have more positive drainage.

I wonder if with this system, if you had taped the joints in the spline prior to placing the second level and then cut a bunch of drainage slots in the top half outside of the spline, would that have solved the problem? Maybe something to take up with your supplier.

Yeah - I might have over thought that one a bit! Just set a skill saw at about a 30º angle and about 1.5" deep and use that to cut the top off the spline and then insert a metal drip in the saw kerf. Simple is always better.

FBBP- i considered doing the same detail I am above the windows (routing in a drip) to break the vertical which is basically what you described. I too think its flowing down behind the verticals and getting behind the caulking since it still leaks. I considered cutting off the horizontal piece and cutting a kurf through the foam/vertical strips and caulking the kurf to break the vertical flow. Was not sure if the metal flashing would be necessary at that point? I also think once the siding gets on a lot of it will go away. The leaking is on the north west face, which gets the brunt of our wind and storms. However I want the leaking to be fixed before I get the siding on ideally! Funny thing is, when I first found it, I went in the basement after a few days of rain and saw standing water/puddles in the floor. My stomach knotted up thinking I had water getting into the basement on the new build. Luckily that isnt the case at all. We have a sunny day today and tomorrow, and rain and storms forcasted for the weekend through next week. Will be a good test if this fix works!

Posted By lzerarc on 17 May 2013 12:17 PM
FBBP- i considered doing the same detail I am above the windows (routing in a drip) to break the vertical which is basically what you described. I too think its flowing down behind the verticals and getting behind the caulking since it still leaks. I considered cutting off the horizontal piece and cutting a kurf through the foam/vertical strips and caulking the kurf to break the vertical flow. Was not sure if the metal flashing would be necessary at that point? I also think once the siding gets on a lot of it will go away. The leaking is on the north west face, which gets the brunt of our wind and storms. However I want the leaking to be fixed before I get the siding on ideally! Funny thing is, when I first found it, I went in the basement after a few days of rain and saw standing water/puddles in the floor. My stomach knotted up thinking I had water getting into the basement on the new build. Luckily that isnt the case at all. We have a sunny day today and tomorrow, and rain and storms forcasted for the weekend through next week. Will be a good test if this fix works!

I think the metal would be better than caulking. The metal will get in deep enough to catch anything behind the verts and the caulking might trap that moisture. Good Luck.

Well I got flashing installed all along the north face, caulked it up really good. I wanted to wait to side it until I did a water test. I knew Sunday night would be a great test for it as there were severe storms forecasted. Turns out it was a good test. We had 40-60 mph winds and heavy heavy rains. It was coming down is sheets with a hard driving rain directly to the north face. The joint/basement staid bone dry. I still need to figure out the door threshold yet though. Not very much came in as I worked on that too, I noticed the concrete was damp in the core so a little did come in.

Posted By lzerarc on 20 May 2013 08:45 AM
Well I got flashing installed all along the north face, caulked it up really good. I wanted to wait to side it until I did a water test. I knew Sunday night would be a great test for it as there were severe storms forecasted. Turns out it was a good test. We had 40-60 mph winds and heavy heavy rains. It was coming down is sheets with a hard driving rain directly to the north face. The joint/basement staid bone dry. I still need to figure out the door threshold yet though. Not very much came in as I worked on that too, I noticed the concrete was damp in the core so a little did come in.

If your threshold is one of those with the ribs on the underside you may be able to get foam backer rod to jamb into these prior to caulking.

Great question Ronmar; I would like to know if that is an acceptable solution or could it cause an issue later?

Posted By Ronmar on 16 May 2013 11:10 PM
How did you wrap/dampproof the below grade portion of the wall? Wouldn't it perhaps be better to extend that dampproofing material above that basement-mainfloor cold joint that is leaking?

I think a great solution for new construction with regards to this issue would be if the basement/main floor cold joint was elevated 24" to 36" above grade.  Of course for existing issues this is not an option.  I'm not sure but could tar be used on that cold joint area alone or is that an inferior solution? 

I know this is not germane to the specific problem, but for those looking for a waterproofing solution for new construction, you really should take a look at Hycrete. This product has caught the eye of some very influential large scale developers in the Northeast and the application for ICF is exciting. Hycrete is a concrete admixture that eliminates the need for waterproofing membranes. http://www.hycrete.com/

the water proofing is a dimple board. Running it past the cold joint would not help, as the water is running down the wall from above, between the furring and the foam. In the instance of running the water proofing up, it would still be in front of the furring, and water still running behind it.

Posted By BrucePolycrete on 21 May 2013 11:21 AM
I know this is not germane to the specific problem, but for those looking for a waterproofing solution for new construction, you really should take a look at Hycrete. This product has caught the eye of some very influential large scale developers in the Northeast and the application for ICF is exciting. Hycrete is a concrete admixture that eliminates the need for waterproofing membranes. http://www.hycrete.com/

Don't think so. If you have the slightest void or cold seam (as in foot to wall) you would still have water intrusion into the home. All the concrete might be waterproof but the void won't be. Of course nobody EVER has even the smallest void, right?

Keep the water away fro the house, give water that does migrate to the foundation a path to drain and make sure the weepers can catch and transport that water away from the footings and preferable not by bringing it back into the house.

FBBP, when I first introduced a computer-based accounting system to my company back in the 80's, my accountant continued to re-calculate all my numbers with his adding machine. Of course he also wore a belt with his suspenders. Me? I always say you can't trust a man who doesn't trust his own pants. You have to know there are contractors out there who can screw up a wet dream. Hire proven contractors, grab the best proven technology, always employ the idiot test and you'll be fine. No need to be a dinosaur because you fear technology.

Posted By BrucePolycrete on 22 May 2013 09:16 AM
FBBP, when I first introduced a computer-based accounting system to my company back in the 80's, my accountant continued to re-calculate all my numbers with his adding machine. Of course he also wore a belt with his suspenders. Me? I always say you can't trust a man who doesn't trust his own pants. You have to know there are contractors out there who can screw up a wet dream. Hire proven contractors, grab the best proven technology, always employ the idiot test and you'll be fine. No need to be a dinosaur because you fear technology.

Sound real cute Bruce, but I might have to disappoint you . I started my computer drafting on a Mac si before auto cadd was hear of.

To use new technoligy for the wrong purposes is just stupid.