Designing a 2700 sq ft, 2 story (1300 each floor) house in the cold north.

Window manufacturer is asking us if we want brickmold, and which size.

Admittedly, I know nothing about windows.

Can i with a 1" brickmold, or do i need larger? We are hoping to trim the windows with faux-wood beams, so want to minimiize the look of the white frame of the window as much as possible.

Thanks in advance!

The question is are you building an energy efficient house? Mounting the window at the middle of the wall provides a 20% measured improvement in performance. insulation of the inside and outside of the window frame with one inch of foam provides additional savings. If you mount the window in the middle of the wall brick molding is not applicable to the window. Middle mounting also reduces thermal washing of the window in storms. If you are doing an ICF home you should be looking to a high performance ICF with a lot more insulation than the standard 4.5 inches, 2.25 on the inside and outside. In your climate 6 inches of foam inside and out would make a lot mort sense.

Is any trim at all necessary? I installed fiberglass framed windows on my ICF home. Several different optional trim profiles were offered, but I opted for no trim. The windows still have a frame that is ~1" wide x ~1" tall beyond the nailing flange. You should be able to go to your window manufacturer's website and locate the architectural details for your selected windows. There should be drawings in there that show the window frame profile.

zehboss - yes, we are aiming for energy efficiency. Above grade, we are using 8" foxblocks forms with their energy sticks.
I will discuss mounting the windows in the middle of the frame with the builder. I do want thick window ledges tho, so I think it'll have to be some sort of a compromise?

That produt is a 5.5 inches of foam and a code R-21 of foam plus concrete. I would have used an ICF solutions block which provides 12 inches of foam at the same installed cost. That is more than twice the insulation value.

And which one would you recommend then, zehboss?

We have foxblocks, logix and a few others near us, but I dont belive any of them have 12" of foam.
Also, the engineer for my home will only go so small for the concrete thickness on the 2nd floor (6"), so that is a limitation as well.

Oh, and zehboss, were you ever going to comment/mention that you "...can build custom ICFs that can be any width desired. We do it based on the requirements of the job. The cost is not more than the standard available products. We use commonly available parts assembled on site. Material cost is lower than the formed lego style standard blocks from other ICF manufacturers.."


Pandering for a bit of attention, are you? Most forums will ban you for sneaky advertising.

I didn't see a reference to any particular system, so I hardly call it pandering. There are a number of systems on the market that can incorporate thicker foam with little additional cost. I recently used one and was very happy with the results. 8" of foam with a 6" core

If someone quotes 'most everything is crap' , you are better off looking into technology X instead, its typically good practice (and often required) that they self-identify as selling that product. Then, if they feel their product is superior, they also suggest a few other products and let the consumer do their own research and come to their own conclusions.

Obviously more foam == better insulation. However, Zehboss's suggestion of building 6" of concrete + 6 inches of foam inside and out would make for very thick 18" walls. I'm not aware of anyone near me who stocks such a product, and I'm already nearing the limit of my budget, so it's likely not feasible. If people have suppliers for mid-Canada that they'd like to share, feel free.

I'll give you some products that can use thicker insulation. Premere, Quad Lock, TF, Hobbs and Lite Form to name a few. I don't know the availability in your area. The project that I spoke about came in at $3 per ft delivered to the job site to give you an example of the pricing.

Hrm, looks like quadlock is the only one remotely close, and their closest rep is three large provinces (half a continent!) away.

I seem to recall they never returned my early phone calls either.
The foxblock rep has been quite kind/knowledgeable, so they'll probably get my money...

Logix is also available in Canada Since it was started by a group of independent molders. Also Superform is made in Canada, I believe Alberta. Not sure where you are located

I forgot. Since you mentioned price being a consideration, you can make your own energy sticks from sheet foam that's widely available and cut it on a standard table saw. They won't be as fancy as the store bought ones but the will be a lot less costly.

Posted By zehboss on 19 Apr 2015 01:07 AM
That produt is a 5.5 inches of foam and a code R-21 of foam plus concrete. I would have used an ICF solutions block which provides 12 inches of foam at the same installed cost. That is more than twice the insulation value.

Increasing the insulation is not a bad idea in a cold climate, but you would be better served to increase the thickness of EPS only on the outside of the concrete and leave the inside panel at the same thickness. This will move you thermal mass (ie, concrete core) closer to the inside of your home. Adding additional EPS on the inside of the concrete will only provide a greater barrier between the conditioned interior air and the thermal mass of the concrete. For this reason, some energy consultants will actually want to see the concrete exposed on the inside so there is NO insulation between the thermal mass and the interior. Also, there is a diminishing marginal return when looking at adding additional insulation. In other words, getting double the insulation will create a structure that is cheaper to heat, but your payback time will be extended for many many years on that additional product cost. Back to your original question about windows - ask your local ICF supplier and your local window supplier for suggestions (may have to visit multiple suppliers to find an option you like).

We are in Manitoba, so smack in the middle of the cold prairies. Ie, Even Alberta is much too far away.

The idea of adding your own energy sticks sounds good, but I'd be surprised if a manufacturer was willing to warranty their product if you used it. I supposed there's always attaching it by hand to the outside of the forms...though that may make adding the exterior cladding a PITA (longer screws, possible slouching/settlement?).

We have a local logix rep, but so far I haven't been terribly impressed with his (lack of) assistance. Which is too bad, cause originally we thought they were our vendor of choice.

I sell Fox and I like to sell foam but there is a lot to think about when going to a wider block just to raise the "R". The first thing is your rate of return is diminished, after R-23-24 or so. I'm not saying more insulation isn't better, but even in our cold climate (snow on the ground today) I think are things to consider prior to committing to a wider wall. With the wider block to accommodate the added foam, your buck costs will go up. Window placement in the wall is relative to me, I would be hesitant to do a wooden brickmould do to the maintenance. Placing the window inside the wall any distance adds flashing issues on the exterior sill and jambs. A good ICF with a 6" core installed correctly with a good clad window w/out brickmould will work great in your area. You can use a beam like low maintenance trim and not have the maintenance issues.

emmetbrick - we are doing a 2-story build, so looking at 8" blocks for the basement, 8" blocks with energysticks on the main floor, and 6" blocks for the 2nd floor.

We are located in cold Winnipeg Manitoba.

Looks like our recommended options for window setting are either a) flush with a vinyl brickmold, b) inset with REALLY good flashing and some sort of closed-cell pvc trim?

Also keep in mind if you want to use the "fox buck" i think they only make it for 8" block max.

As for windows i thought the deeper inset they were the better they perform.  But then you will need some custom flashing to set them in that deep.


PS im also in winnipeg

Hrm, k, I will ask my (likely) builder tmorrow about the foxbuck, as he hadn't mentioned that!

Yes, deeper inset == better performance. But if the flashing fails, may not be much of a benefit!

fallguy - Any chance you have a flashing detail you're wiling to share? A

I have yet to build with ICF, my last few projects have been 2x6 with 1.6" of SM foam on the outside..

my next project will be icf with extra foam on the out side i was thinking... keep the thermal mass to the inside.   as for flashing i was thinking of using a retro fit style window with no brickmould. Thinking i would make aluminum flashing (like a bib/chute with 3 sides) that would go all the way inside the wall under the window.  I was also thinking of putting the fox buck at an angle to the outside to help drain (bottom sill only).  then cover the sides of the flashing with peal and stick keeping the aluminum bottom exposed.. or cover with acrylic stucco..   or natural stone sill....

guys that clad garage doors could whip up the flashing for you... kaycan in town here has any color you would want.  www.kaycan.com