TWR;

Well I really could relate to about 12 items on the long and short term effects , but only wanted to admit to the paranoia

OK, so let's narrow this discussion down a bit. This is "The SIP Forum" isn't it? So TWR, which SIP companies are using an OSB that contains high levels of "embalming fluids" (which vary in chemical makeup depending upon the precise application, and, yes, formaldehyde is the key ingredient) In regard to your reference regarding "firewood" being used to build houses: I suppose that it would be better, in your mind, to use this resource as a very inefficcient source of heating fuel, rather than to help increase the energy efficiency of homes by "at least 66%" (US Dept of energy quote) Of course I expect one of the next comments to be "well, there are some pretty efficient woodburning stoves, fireplaces, and furnaces, out there" True, but, I don't think that most of the wood species used in the production of OSB are suitable for this purpose.

MO Board? may be the greatest thing to come down the pike since beer, but as CK says, "lets wait and see". (largest size panel available?) At this point the vast majority of SIPs are being manufactured with OSB skins, tried and true, readily available, easy to use, etc. (Up to 8' x 24') Steel certainly has some benefits, and will probably increase marketshare over the coming years, Fiber cement seems like a reasonable option for above grade walls (largest sheet 4' x 10"?)

In any event, I think that, when someone is using scare tactics such as you are, TWR, you should back up your statements with facts, as I suggested before, why don't you name the SIP companies that utilize these toxic materials in the production of their products?

Sorry I am really not trying to be cryptic .
Let me try this way.
#1. OSB is made from firewood (a substance used to support fire) (wood burns, wood burns real well after the wax they put on it to give it a short term resistance to the weather)
#2. It is also made with Formaldahyde--read what it is in the definations already submitted from WIKI and others.
MGO boards have been around longer than fiber cement boards and--just not in this country. Everyone knows that the world is only within the borders of the US and all other countries have nothing to contribute. yes, time will tell. (I cannot wait)
Largest panel available is limited by handling issues but 8' x24" is certainly available--larger if you can transport it.
Did not mean to scare you. You would really have a cat if I told you about EPS.
(by the way, I do not sell MGO board ) Do whatever you want--just do it after looking at the facts.
The real problem is the insurance companies. As long as stupid can be insured people will build stupid.

Sorry once again I forgot to answer your last question as to who is building with firwood and embalming fluid.  I thought Chris had done a sufficient job of that.

Anyone who uses products made with firewood and embalming fluid is building with firewood and embalming fluid.  Call it OSB if you want--does not change the facts.

Keep those questions coming.

Tesla was probably right (when it came to anything concerning electricity, electrical current, wireless transmissions, etc.) but you're wrong if you think that your ridiculous, comments, "scare" me. My only concern is that some visitors to these forums miight actually take you seriously, and not do the research necessary to understand the inaccuracies of many of your statements.

And, yes, I think that you should educate all of us less educated, and less traveled, folks, on the evils of EPS. So, one more question for now. In your vernacular, is a home built with OSB/EPS SIPs like building with a "glob of crude oil sandwiched between 2 layers of firewood soaked in embalming fluid"? (This is probably my last question for you, but if you decide that maybe its time for you to become enlightened with the real facts, regarding the subject materials, I'm sure that I, or others, will do our best to help you.)

The only evil I see is the OSB and none on the EPS side.

The Sipper;

attached is a report from the APA (engineered wood assoc.) with regard to mfgs. with low emitting formaldehyde OSB They just list 3 mfgs.

CK, I have this report, along with many others that support the theory that there are no health concerns associated with the use of OSB/EPS SIPs for use as building envelopes for residential and commercial construction, with the caveat that any such structure have a properly installed HRV or ERV system installed, for proper ventilation. (due to the inherent air tightness, not due to concerns about formaldyhyde emmissions from the SIPs) (I'm also assuming that anyone who is building "green" and/or is concerned with their health, will avoid interior products which contain any appreciable levels of toxic materials.)

Obviously, you don't have to deal with the formaldehyde issue with your steel skin SIPs but, I have a feeling that all of us who provide an EPS core product are going to be dealing with an onslaught of fallacious information in connection with this material, as soon as twr can get it together.

And, for ergodesk, what material are you using for the skin on your "sips"? No Skin, no SIP! (That's not to imply that you don't have a viable building system that will be competitive in the marketplace but this is "The SIP Forum", and the originator of the thread asked for comments regarding MO board vs OSB)

I do not need to dive into the shallow end of the gene pool to search for deep meaning.
You are doing such a good job of getting people to come to this forum and see for themselves.
Some people do have the ability to read something and understand what it says.
Look at your own post--full of qualifying exceptions etc.
Keep posting so people will keep seeing this at the top of the list and see for themselves. I am loving it.
Anyone can google and find information for themselves but I may give you some tutelage if the mood hits me.
The epitome of safety is a profound thought in the mind of a fool and I do not feel like making a deposit tonight. Maybe later.
I was in Las Vegas when the Monte Carlo EPS caught on fire. Reminded me of Nam and the Napalm attacks. Ask me what the connection is PLEASE PLEASE

Sipper ;

 

you sound like you are in denial

out of those 3 emmitting low OSB mfg only 1 was in the US, huber (not on the list) is one of the main supplier of osb , being not listed I would imagine they do not conform, that being said a OSB SIPs home would have 1000s of sq. ft. of offgassing on the interior side of a home

TWR;

self extinguishing EPS needs a flame source to melt/burn. This is hard to do in a steel encased SIP.

It is not hard to do in an OSB coverd SIP with wire and air chases running thru them

I've done a fair bit of research on the formaldehyde levels in new construction and its my understanding that there is a period of off-gassing and then it's done. These buildings are not off gassing formaldehyde all the time, only initially after installation. This was in regards to OSB panels and subfloor and maybe it was industry propaganda, correct me if I'm wrong. Also the in regard to APA G5 limit and only 3 manufacturers, you're talking about a very high standard and maybe one that isn't really necessary other than for marketing. What needs to be researched is acceptable formaldehyde limits compared to standard OSB and if its within or outside of those limits.

You can easily build without using MDF or particle board in a home, one of the biggest formaldehyde culprits; problem is people are moving in to their big new homes and filling it with cheap MDF furniture, tables, night stands, entertainment centers, tables, anything and everything from Target or WalMart or any furniture store for that matter. If a quality contractor is using any bit of MDF at all it will be for paint grade trim or built-ins, and their are better alternatives than that. Cheap, low bidders will probably have a higher amount of mdf because its cheap, you get what you pay for.

Are you going to finish this marketing post with any facts or figures please?

greentree, I wasn't sure whether your last post re " finishing this marketing post....." was aimed at CK or me. (according to him it appears that the "only" building system that anyone should consider is a steel skinned SIP, and anyone who doesn't agree, is either a moron or "in denial")

Actually, I got sidetracked by some real business matters, and then, when I saw CK's comment in regard to "low emmitting OSB...." which ended with "that being said a OSB SIP home would have 1000s of sq. ft. of offgassing on the interior side of a home" I intended to ask him to prove that statement while I did some "careful" reasearch for a rebuttal. (Let's see it, CK, maybe TWR can help you) (By the way, how thick is a sq ft?...speaks to the issue of volume)

In the meantime, I saw your response to CK's statement re "OSB SIP offgassing", and thought that to be a pretty common sense take on the subject without attaching copies of exhaustive test results, code reports, green building standards, etc. etc. I can still do that if it becomes necessary. In the meantime, I'll make my own "off the cuff" statement: I'm relatively certain that the OSB used in the production of SIPs in this country has pretty well completed the "outgassing process" by the time the actual panel is installed in a home.

By the way, if your comment re "marketing post" was aimed at me, I've always admitted that I do sell a specific brand of OSB/EPS sip as well as a specific brand of ICFs, and provide what I consider to be a professional level of services in connection with my business activities. However, I don't thaink that I've ever slammed a competitor's product in any of my posts on any of the forums on this website. (Other than the "Double Framed Wall" approach) Having said that, I will respond proactively to posts that I consider to be inaccurate, or blatantly untrue, in connection with the products that I'm involved with.

Sipper,
I was referring to Chris, he knows what's is wrong with his post yet he and many others do it time and time again, I suppose for the almighty dollar or maybe plain ignorance.

That said he also posts great information and has helped (from what I can tell) many many people.

Sipper;

I said square feet, not cubic feet , if you need clarification: a 2000 sq. ft. OSB SIP house would have about 3800 sq. ft. of 7/16" OSB walls and roof in a tightly sealed and insulated interior environment.

If you think it all off gasses before you live in it, please show me that supporting document!

My post regarding steel was to TWR, but now that you mention it again our painted galvalume skin is USDA approved for use in food processing environments.

The formaldehyde info I posted was not steel industry propaganda, it is directly from a OSB industry supporting document, don't blame me if it is  self-incriminating its own industry.

People can gleen from my posts what they want

I find TWR's posts entertaining editorials.

Sipper;

I don't think your a moron

Tesla or Chris,
You seem to sound very knowledgable about formaldehyde as it relates to building materials.

Since you are very knowledgable would you please explain the difference between phenol formaldehyde resin and urea formaldahyde resin and how it relates to exposure 1 OSB? Maybe you could also let us know the ppm differences, and IAQ standards for formaldehyde ppm and associated levels in exposure 1 osb.
You guys must know this stuff based on your comments, right?
Thanks

I rely on the experts for that stuff, the following link is a comprehensive CDC report on the subject http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp111.pdf
if there is some documentation , other than your opinion you wish to share , then just post it instead of answering a question with another question.

Thank goodness, CK, I can sleep tonight, knowing that you don't think I'm a moron!.........But, do you still think that I'm "in denial"? (In a way, that would be even worse)

Re: The other points in your last post
1. "I said square feet, not cubic feet.................." That was a pretty lame response to the point that I was trying to make. (I don't think that I'd even have to explain why I say that to others who might still be staying with this thread)

2. "If you think it all off gasses before you live in it, please show me that supporting document?" ..........Debate 101..you don't have documentation to prove your point so when your opponent refutes your contention, ask him for documentation that proves said contention is inaccurate. I think that the onus is on you, CK, to prove that your contention regarding "offgassing in SIP Homes" is accurate.

3. "My post regarding steel.............approved for use in food processing envioronments" I think I'll skip this one, too tempting, maybe panelcrafter would like to chime in here if he's aboard on this thread.

4. "The formaldehyde info............self incriminating its own industry" I saw nothing "self incriminating" in that information, and I thought that greentree did a pretty good job on that one anyway. (I know, I know, I'm probably still "in denial")

5. Roger that, in connection with "gleaning" from your posts (There's a lot to "glean" from there
   1053 posts)

6. No comment on that last one.