Span has nothing to do with de-lamination issues. It only relates to thickness. Thinner SIPs (PU) are better for walls - more square footage. Use a EPS SIP for the roof if you have to.

As a builder I see these kinds of threads as kind of stupid. Sometimes I use steel studs and sometimes I use wood studs. Sometimes I use PSLs and sometimes I use dimensional lumber. You would be better off promoting the industry as a whole rather than scaring off potential customers who come to this site.

This has been fascinating to follow. It brings up a lot of things I'v been trying to get answers to. Unfortunately there's some disagreement on the answers.

Let me ask you experts a question. I am planning a 1 story retirement house on a full walkout basement; call it 35' X 35'. It will be located near the top of a ridge line. I was looking at poured concrete throughout or cement board over 2X6, but recently looked at SIPs again. Here's the I need answers to:

1. What is the estimated lifespan of a house. I'm looking for a minimum of 50 years. For instance. if a tree falls on a stick build house you replace the roof. If it falls on a SIP built house what happens?
2. What's the maximum wall length, given 8-9 foot high with typical doors and windows? could I build a wall of of two 9' high X 18' long SIP pieces?
3. Do I need to frame it out as a post and beam, do I attach the SIPS to corner upfight beams, so they somehos all hook together? the industry is very uninformative on this
4. EPS vs PUR PUR seeems more fireproof, EPS seems more structurally sound. Offgassing should be a chemically documented fact...so what do the chemists say.EPS has a lower R-factor but is less expensive, you just make the walls a little thicker. The rest seems to be an argument similar to "how many angels fit on the head of a pin?

Any takers on this one?

DHIOTH;

1. 300years , I have had a tree fall with minor damage on my own home
2. 53 ft. we typically balloon frame up to 3 stories
3. our are T&G friction fit, they are completely structural
4. We use EPS no offgassing

Dear sip swupply inc
I have no idea what youy just said.

Let me explain it this way: I'm very technical, I understand why the technical facts are critically important. But you are all lost in the trees and missing the forest.

Sh** happens. I know what happens to a concrete, masonry or wood frame building when it happens. Swo what happens whedn thaqt freak 100MPH

Worry, had a stroke 2 yrs ago, typing is no longer my forte

The SIP industry publishes very little about why a homeowner can trust SIPS to last the vagaries of nature. If I'm going tp build with
SIPs I qwant to understand their characteristics, strengths, weaknessses, assets, risks, etc. swo I can do it RIGHT.
I've lived thropugh 345 hburricdanesw, a (very) small tornado, several 100mph 2wind storms, several lightning strikes and a few other things. Concrete, masonry, wood frame survive. I don't know about SIPs.
Moisture/mildew happens. Wood (i.e. OSB) rot occurs I havge no interest in a logt home because it would be a series of perpetual maintenance issues... what about SIPS.

dhiorth;

attached is a FEMA report regarding best construction and SIPs performance during hurricane Charlie

There has been a good deal of documentation about the structural abilities of SIP's. Don't believe me ask a structural engineer. Here in MA SIP's homes have to have a structural engineers stamp for approval. The structural engineer I hired had not done any work with SIP's but after doing the calculations decided when he builds his home he will be using them. They simplify many of the hurricane attachment methods needed to meet hurricane standards. While I am not an engineer but just a builder that prefers these over most methods of construction for many reasons, here are a few. Exceptional thermal performance over stick frame construction, speed of construction over stick frame, air tightness, strength,straight as an arrow.
While I have seen problems with them, typically after years of roof neglect. What I can tell you is that I have had to fix many roof problems with many buildings and people just don't seem to understand that roofing materials don't last forever on any house. If your roof is leaking it will damage any home.

I like SIP's from R-control, all of the structural data and connection methods are posted on their web site for anyone who whats to find it. http://www.r-control.com/ you need to register to get all of the technical data in the library. With a little work you can find all of the construction details and structural loading charts for design purposes. Be careful there are SIP's companies out there that have not done all the engineering and use information from other manufacturers engineering spec's.

As for SIP's lasting 300 years I doubt it. They have been around for some time now, about sixty years. Many people would say back as far as the 1930's but those aren't the SIP's we use today. They were developed in the 1950's and have been improving ever since. How has conventional construction improved? has the lumber gotten better? In my short 30 year history of building I have seen dramatic decline of lumber, don't believe me go to the lumber yard and pick through the pile to find straight ones. Do this a Home depot or Lowes only if you have an afternon to waste.

So basically it comes down to this. If you don't have faith in SIP's don't build with them. If you can't find the information that makes you feel comfortable with them don't do it. But I would suggest that you find a SIP's house in your area and talk with the homeowners, find out from the people that live in them, what they think.

The ASES national solar tour is coming in October and they also have homes built with SIP's open for tours. Take some time to find out all the facts before making your decision. For me it's a no brainer, +-5% difference in construction costs and about a 50-60% savings in energy costs. Do the math then make your decision. I have done it for myself and the estimated cost savings have about a 5 year payback if your construction costs increase by say $5,000. Here in New England ( Patriots nation) this equates to about a $1,000 a year savings on heating cost on a typical 2,500 sq/ft home.

Tom Pittsley
[email protected]
www.eebt.org

Tom;

well said!

Its ironic that if many folks put as much time into looking for flaws in stick construction as they do SIPs, this argument would be much shorter.

As for the energy savings, you don't have to be in the polar zone to reap the benefits. Even here in mild central Arizona my heating energy bill is $1560 less annually than my neighbor who has a very similar house in style and aspect.

Built in the same year it has been a great case study for me to quantify some real world differences outside of the rare air of manufacturer spin and "independent lab tests". They are a semi-retired couple and we are a family of five and this includes hot-water heating.