|
|
Bigrig
New Member
Posts:92
 |
| 13 Apr 2010 02:06 PM |
|
How would these types of coatings allow for moisture to escape if it does get behind it? This seems to be the issue with Grailcoat. Per the article mentioned at the bottom of this page http://gbt.buildcentral.com/Forums/...fault.aspx only a 1/8" gap would provide adequate space to allow moisture to migrate away. Perhaps an inner layer of fiberglass mat without resin to allow the moisture to escape, followed with exterior layers of resin-reinforced fiberglass to finish. Expensive, impractical, but would be very impressive to see actually built! |
|
|
|
|
Dick Mills
Basic Member
Posts:217
|
| 13 Apr 2010 03:08 PM |
|
One possibility, that is probably entirely impractical, would be to wrap the structure with a layer of glass-fiber mat or fabric, then a release layer, and a breather layer, and then vacuum bag an entire section of wall at a time.
So the process would be to:
prepare a section of wall
ensure that the wall temperature is high enough to ensure that any moisture can vaporize and be evacuated
pull a vacuum first to draw out all of the air and water vapor
then draw the resin into the fiberglass from the bottom
Could be more work than is required, though. If the wall temperature is above the dew point by a sufficient margin, then there shouldn't be any condensation on the surface of the substrate. Since the other side of the skin is already protected from moisture incursion, then simply ensuring that there is no extraneous moisture on the exterior of the panel should solve any moisture related problems. But, any method should be researched and tested to make sure. |
|
|
|
|
jonr
Senior Member
Posts:5341
|
| 13 Apr 2010 05:16 PM |
|
Sounds like building a boat - expensive. But even boats had problems with moisture penetration until they switched to epoxy or vinyl-ester resins.
|
|
|
|
|
JeffD
Basic Member
Posts:282
|
| 13 Apr 2010 09:06 PM |
|
Jelly,
Kingspan and Gefco do sell non ribbed panels. A painted exterior metal panel finish will not hide the screws in the top and bottom channels and corner angle, so there are some aesthetic issues to think about.
|
|
| Metal SIP Building Designer<br>jeff@panelfusion(dot com) See us on Facebook |
|
|
The Sipper
Basic Member
Posts:264
|
| 14 Apr 2010 02:07 PM |
|
Dave S, So your question resulted in a lot of sincere, creative responses. Another thought, if you build your home with OSB SIPs you can just finish the exterior, virtually any way that you want, just like with a conventionally framed home that is sheathed with OSB. This approach is likely to be less expensive than many, or most, of the other solutions that are suggested here. Of course if the exposed skin of metal SIPs satisfies your esthetic requirements then, that would be a plus. However, you don't have to add furring strips to the interior of OSB SIP walls to accommodate your wiring, as there are pre-drilled wiring chases with the panels; this also makes drywall installation simpler and faster. A couple of other benefits of OSB skinned SIPs over metal skins: It's basically a wood based product that requires no special tools (other than maybe a foam scoop) The learning curve is very short for experienced contractors and carpenters. Availability may be another issue, depending upon your location, there are far more OSB SIP manufacturers in the U.S. than metal skin SIP manufacturers.
In any event, good luck with your project, whatever building materials that you may choose. |
|
| The Sipper |
|
|
Jelly
Veteran Member
Posts:1017
|
| 14 Apr 2010 04:57 PM |
|
Posted By The Sipper on 14 Apr 2010 02:07 PM
...It's basically a wood based product... Therein lies the problem  |
|
|
|
|
The Sipper
Basic Member
Posts:264
|
| 14 Apr 2010 05:02 PM |
|
A problem for a few, a solution for many. |
|
| The Sipper |
|
|
cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
|
| 14 Apr 2010 06:31 PM |
|
Direct applied elastomeric stucco to panel  applied on home  applied on commercial building  |
|
| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
|
|
cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
|
| 14 Apr 2010 07:01 PM |
|
Posted By Dick Mills on 11 Apr 2010 02:32 PM
On Steel SIPs, I understand that Grailcoat can blister. I suspect that it is a result of applying the product to a substrate that wasn't sufficiently above the dew point temperature to ensure that no moisture was trapped beneath the polymer. But, I haven't heard of any problems when it is properly applied to OSB. Dick, you sound almost like a Grailcoat Rep, Grailcoat is approved over steel or OSB, but I can gaurantee it will NEVER be the products fault with a failiure, it is ALWAYS the application. it was always the same problem with stuccoflex; you needed to wait til dew burned off, then apply ........oops! air blisters, so factory says surface must be too hot, solution: mist with water, mist with water? didn't they say wait til dew burned off? its a catch 22 with them you will never win and never have them admit they are at fault, I was contacted by an Orlando attorney 3 years ago representing a modular building company that was suing stuccoflex for failures on over 300 modular buildings, same problem...air blisters. They were applied in a climate controlled environment,but still must be someone else's fault? I personally know Don Grail and he is a real fine gentleman, but he has had some serious problems |
|
| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
|
|
DaveS
New Member
Posts:87
|
| 15 Apr 2010 08:19 PM |
|
Posted By cmkavala on 11 Apr 2010 02:26 PM
Dick;
I am a certified Grail coat applicator, The stuff just does not work as implied. Grai Coat has changed their corporate name/ structure , from what I understand to avoid lawsuits Thanks Dick, we won't go there.  |
|
|
|
|
DaveS
New Member
Posts:87
|
| 15 Apr 2010 08:23 PM |
|
Thanks everybody. This is very helpful info. |
|
|
|
|
dstevenson
New Member
Posts:6
|
| 16 Apr 2010 11:03 AM |
|
I applied Grail Coat to several wall panel packages and the result was disasterous. The tanins from the OSB bled through and there were areas where the coating did not adhere at all. Generally speaking, I would not recommend any paint material be applied directly to the OSB. Proper sisding with a rain screen is the best bet for durability. |
|
| Dave Stevenson<br>Insulspan |
|
|
cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
|
| 16 Apr 2010 12:35 PM |
|
I checked with the State of Florida and found they have operated under at least 6 different entity names, buyer beware! |
|
| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
|
|
DaveS
New Member
Posts:87
|
| 20 Apr 2010 07:00 AM |
|
Posted By Banerpan on 13 Apr 2010 08:28 AM
Dear Wes,
I used to spray polyurea, wich is what is Rhino Lining, and we though to spray it on sip's panel for sealing the sip's roof panels, i bought the equipment and everything, we tough it could be a good idea...and we had another market for balcony,
and we began manufacturing SIP's panel at the same times, the market we were working oin was industrial and commercial in Canada.
What we found is on OSB, the polyurea need a lot of thickness to seal the board, and it became expensive because of that, and to seal the joint on the job site became a problem, it could have been done with a cold polyurea, but it needed dpecial equipment,
it wasn't worth it.
Soo think another solution, go away of that one....and it was an architect who gave us this idea, up north....he tried to spray it himself and got out of the market.
DO NOT TUCH THIS...that is the best recommandation i could give you.
Stick with the SIP's wich is the best idea that architect gave us.
Pierre Desjardins
Baneroan Panels
450-546-9047 Yeah, that is the type product I am wondering about. Doesn't it seem logical that someone would come up with a product like that? The panels, if are a good tight fit, don't need expensive siding. Heck they really don't need anything except, sprucing up and something that is maintenance free. |
|
|
|
|
DaveS
New Member
Posts:87
|
| 20 Apr 2010 07:05 AM |
|
Posted By Banerpan on 13 Apr 2010 01:14 PM
Dick....stop talking....you will kill our research and development project we have now.....LOL
I cannot talk about it, until we have results
Pierre Desjardins
Banerpan Panels
Pierre, start talking. When do you expect results?  |
|
|
|
|
DaveS
New Member
Posts:87
|
| 20 Apr 2010 07:09 AM |
|
OSB SIPs is a no no for us. We want to use as little wood products as possible in Florida. |
|
|
|
|
DaveS
New Member
Posts:87
|
| 20 Apr 2010 07:23 AM |
|
OK Thanks everyone.
Just so everyone know; we are going to use a fiber cement board to cover the seams and one other between for ascetics and paint. I was just hoping there was an inexpensive maintenance free solution. We are very tight with our budget to get the home build. This is a LEED Platinum project, so most of the budget is invested in the GREEN features. Once we finish we can move in, save money with energy savings and pinch our pennies to afford a more ascetic siding in the future. |
|
|
|
|
Banerpan
New Member
Posts:65
|
| 20 Apr 2010 09:36 AM |
|
The fiberglass panels should be ready for market at the end of summer. The test are for lamination strenght.
Thanks for the interest
Pierre Desjardins
Banerpan Panels
Acton Vale Quebec
450-546-9047 |
|
|
|
|
Banerpan
New Member
Posts:65
|
| 20 Apr 2010 09:38 AM |
|
We have other project on the go now, we are integrating I joist into our roof panels so it could be without support up to 24 feet...it work.
We are quoting our first project
Thanks for the interest
Pierre Desjardins
Banerpan Panels
Acton Vale Quebec
450-546-9047 |
|
|
|
|