WOW! So you don't use expanding foam on any of the panel joints? No wonder you have so much infiltration. Are you seeing energy efficiency that is any better than stick built?

WOW! You don't use expanding foam on any of the joints between panels? No wonder you have so much infiltration. Do you get energy efficiency that is any better than stick built?

Posted By Dick Mills on 27 Sep 2011 08:51 PM
WOW! You don't use expanding foam on any of the joints between panels? No wonder you have so much infiltration. Do you get energy efficiency that is any better than stick built?

Panels are foam to foam contact no spray foam @ joint.

Air infiltration will occur from: windows, doors (sliding glass doors and double doors are particularly bad), while not running back drafts from range vents, bath vents, dryer vents and fireplace flues, fireplace freshair intake, any penetration thru envelope such as wires, plumbing pipes and plumbing vent stacks.

Any exhausting vent that runs and/or HVAC system that runs will cause negative presure in a home and infiltration will occur where mentioned

Can't be too bad with 2003 and 2010 Aurora Awards for "best energy efficient" homes

Benefits of the ERV are greatly over rated for Hot Humid Climates, they are more of a detriment,most notably in the summer, as it draws in humid air and are not dehumidifying the air in the process. raisng the humidity levels in the home causing to be uncomfortable and prone to mold growth

A HRV is much more beneficial in northern climates

Butting two pieces of foam together without some expanding adhesive is nothing I would ever buy into without concrete proof that it is air-tight and highly energy efficient. You didn't compare your results with a typical stick built... so I can only assume that you are not seeing the kind of results that you claim.

And, according to you, you don't even use expanding foam around foam butted to metal, or worse, metal skins butted to metal tracks. Have you ever had any credible research done as to where all of your air infiltration (air loss) is occurring. Excuse me if I have a problem just taking your word for it.

Posted By Dick Mills on 28 Sep 2011 12:40 AM
Butting two pieces of foam together without some expanding adhesive is nothing I would ever buy into without concrete proof that it is air-tight and highly energy efficient. You didn't compare your results with a typical stick built... so I can only assume that you are not seeing the kind of results that you claim.

And, according to you, you don't even use expanding foam around foam butted to metal, or worse, metal skins butted to metal tracks. Have you ever had any credible research done as to where all of your air infiltration (air loss) is occurring. Excuse me if I have a problem just taking your word for it.

Dick; There is no such thing as an airtight house, with the exception of the international space station.

The panel joint is not the infiltration point problem, all you need to do is examine any sliding glass door at the interlock, any double door at the "T" astragal or any back draft vent dampers to know they are the sources of air infiltration, They are the points of least resistance from which the air will flow in.

But, you don't need to take my word for tightness of the home, all of our "turnkey" homes are tested and listed on the Energy Star website, they have strict guidelines for the "tightness" (among other things)to qualify for the program. http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=new_homes_partners.showAreaResults&s_code=FL&msa_id=332


Progress Energy Florida thought enough of our Waterberry custom home to nominate us for the 2010 Aurora Award http://www.theauroras.com/ ,and it won for "Best Energy Efficient Home", I don't make this stuff up we have the trophys and awards to prove it.

Unless of course you do buy into conspiracy theories , in which case I will never convince you of anything.


The facts speak for themselves, I can forward to you the total Energystar test data/thermal ByPass checklist documents for your perusal, if you PM me your email address.

Tesla
Was this what you were talking about??

http://mychinaviews.com/2011/03/flame-retardant-used-in-polystyrene-to-be-banned-by-eu/

Chris, that is exactly my point. You have no data to back up your claims. As a consumer, I demand actual, real, cold, hard facts. And you are very short on those. And the last thing that I care about is some meaningless trophy that you have sitting on your mantle.

You claim that you offer energy efficient structures, but you offer no evidence to support your claim. And "energystar" doesn't mean a damned thing to me UNLESS it actually means energy-efficient.

But, to the contrary, you fully admit that your structures have serious issues with air-infiltration. You fully admit that you do nothing to seal joints. And then you have the gall to mock anyone who so much as questions you. As a consumer, I will never buy anything from a salesperson who treats me that way.

Posted By Dick Mills on 28 Sep 2011 11:26 PM
Chris, that is exactly my point. You have no data to back up your claims. As a consumer, I demand actual, real, cold, hard facts. And you are very short on those. And the last thing that I care about is some meaningless trophy that you have sitting on your mantle.

You claim that you offer energy efficient structures, but you offer no evidence to support your claim. And "energystar" doesn't mean a damned thing to me UNLESS it actually means energy-efficient.

But, to the contrary, you fully admit that your structures have serious issues with air-infiltration. You fully admit that you do nothing to seal joints. And then you have the gall to mock anyone who so much as questions you. As a consumer, I will never buy anything from a salesperson who treats me that way.

Dick; ....... I guess with you I need to go a little s..l..o..w..e..r...... there are no air infiltration issues if the homes meet energystar , which they have, I have offered the supporting data to you, but you have not responded. So if you don't want to review it, or you feel unable to comprehend it, then you can continue to be baselessly argumenative. By the way they are trophy(s) and the are not on the mantle. Dick it just occured to me you are jealous

Chris, If you've done blower door tests I'd be very curious to know what kind/range of leakage rates you have been getting. The passive house requirement (ACH50 < 0.60) seems to be the gold standard. I'd like to know how close panels come without sealing. Thanks, Torben

Torben; blower door tests and duct blaster tests are done on all homes with an EnergyStar certification and label. They have been anywhere from .50 to 1.67, depending on design, windows, doors. The Waterberry job that won the Aurora award was at 1.67, which is on the low side of moderate leakage, which is attributed to the 9 pair of double french doors that leak terribly. Even still it achieved a HERS index score of 64 was good enough to qualify for the $2,000 federal tax credit and a $1,200. rebate from Progress Energy - Florida under their Builders "Advantage" program

I heard Energy Star allows up to 4. An ACH50 of 0.50 is really impressive. Did you do anything unusual to get that one?

Torben; it was a small house with only 5 windows, ductless range hood, simply less infiltration points.

Guest, Sorry to keep you waiting for an answer to your legitimate question.
NO, that is not what I was referring to with the question that I started the thread with.
I am referring to some other information. It will become public in due time.
I was just wondering what people think they will do if what I am told becomes true.
I see the thread has devolved into just an email server for the regulars to snipe at each other and advertise.
I am sorry I bothered trying to make them think about something they do not want to deal with.