I’m looking to hire a contractor with SIPs experience within range of Sarasota, FL an hour south of Tampa, and also SIPs manufacturers who can supply SIPs to this area. If you know of any, please either post their info here or email me it at:

[email protected]

I'm also trying to understand how SIPs are used for vaulted ceiling roofs. If you want to do a vaulted ceiling in a room in a new single story home, do you just place the SIPs between the center beam and walls (and they act as the rafters), or do there still need to be rafters from wall to center beam under the SIPs - assuming the room is 16’ x 14’ with a normal pitch such as 4/12 and no other structures putting load on that roof? If it does need rafters, are fewer usually needed than with wood stick frame? Does it make any difference for this if the walls are 8’, 9’ or 10’?

Are you looking for steel SIPs or OSB SIPs? If steel then Chris Kavala is the guy you need to talk to.

Any sips supplier can ship to you, it's a truck load $1,000 -$3,000 to ship small % of the job.

there are 22 manufactures out there half of them don't respond to email or return calls.

You can't use some because they only make 4x16 max, I found several that can make upto 8x24.

you can span the roof upto 24 ', so your 16' is not an issue.

wall height - IMO push it up, figure your perimeter footage add about $4 a foot of height.

I narrowed it down to 4 manufacturers out of 22, all OSB.

Chris is a good local rep for steel, but it costs more than OSB, does not have any electrical chases or conduits which means wire is surface or chase mounted.

Fastening siding, roofing and interior finishes are a bit harder IMO, but doable.

they both have pros & cons, sorry Chris, I went with the OSB for those reasons and others.


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I'm open to either metal or OSB.

Gosolar, what manufacturers did you find that do 24' panels?

I'm also aiming to do a lanai that is about 22' x 19' with a nearly flat roof (i.e. as low-sloped as code allows which I think here is around 1/4" per foot) with a 22' span and 2' overhang. If I get panels that are 24', can I typically span them 22' from beam to beam and no support rafters between the 2 main beams, or do SIPs need rafters and additional beams under them just like regular roofs?

The 22' is from the apex (where the lanai will begin at the side of the house) to the overhang, and the 19' is the span at the opening of the lanai to the yard.

Is it fine to do a series of 4 x 19' panels covering the 24' from apex to the end (i.e. use six 4 x 19 panels), or with SIPs, should the long lengths of SIPs run from the apex to the overhang? In other words, can SIPs basically be laid out in either direction - or is there something about the design of SIPs that means the longest sides should go from the apex to the overhang, rather than do 4' sections from the apex to the end of the roof?

Posted By Green_Life on 10 May 2015 08:06 PM
I'm also aiming to do a lanai that is about 22' x 19' with a nearly flat roof (i.e. as low-sloped as code allows which I think here is around 1/4" per foot) with a 22' span and 2' overhang. If I get panels that are 24', can I typically span them 22' from beam to beam and no support rafters between the 2 main beams, or do SIPs need rafters and additional beams under them just like regular roofs?

The 22' is from the apex (where the lanai will begin at the side of the house) to the overhang, and the 19' is the span at the opening of the lanai to the yard.

Is it fine to do a series of 4 x 19' panels covering the 24' from apex to the end (i.e. use six 4 x 19 panels), or with SIPs, should the long lengths of SIPs run from the apex to the overhang? In other words, can SIPs basically be laid out in either direction - or is there something about the design of SIPs that means the longest sides should go from the apex to the overhang, rather than do 4' sections from the apex to the end of the roof?

So you have a 19' span with a 3' overhang, that works with the panels, they can be 4' wide or 8', but Y would you want small panels, more labor more handling etc.

I would just use 8x22, you can order them any size you want I was giving you the max, the panels can be installed in 2-3 hours.

I can't tell you about the slope, but I would not go less than 2/12, with the weather in S FL rain, hurricane down pours a 1/4" may hold water.
Check with your building dept

You need to go to sips.org, on the bottom of that page click on the links of the members study their websites.

I'd be fine with 8' panels. It seems some companies only make 4' ones. Our building code is fine with 1/4" per foot slope. There are many roofs around here with that pitch and they do fine. The total size of the nearly flat roof needs to be 24' x 19', so I can either do three 8' x 19' panels, or three 6' x 24' panels. I was guessing that the 8' x 19' panels would be better because then the longest length would be 19' and it would reduce the chances of bowing over time? But can 19' panels or 24' panels be used without rafters under them, or would bowing likely occur with panels of that length if they don't have rafters under them?

We can consider having an additional beam/rafter in the center, in which case panels that are 8' x 12' would work, though 24' would be more ideal.

It would help a lot to find out which manufacturers make 24' long panels whether posted here or to my email at [email protected]. I work at a nonprofit 6-7 days a week and have spent a large amount of time trying to research SIPs and am running out of time for it. I've read many of the websites linked to at sips.org, and most only have very basic info.

Over half don't have their panel sizes and thicknesses or whether they require rafters, or at what lengths they require rafters/joists. My architect is able do the roof plan and wall details in SIPs if I want, but it's kind of hard to do SIPs when it's so hard to get info on the products out there. We need to finish the plans fairly soon, and if I don't find details and viable options soon, he'll need to do traditional walls/roof.

"But can 19' panels or 24' panels be used without rafters under them, or would bowing likely occur with panels of that length if they don't have rafters under them?"

I know for fact that 16' worked on my plans with all of them.

So your 19' should work, but you need to hear that from them the thickness of the sips is a factor in span, I'm using 8 1/4.

In between each 8' panel there will be a spline or 2 by which supports the span also.

I emailed you a few Co's that make 24'

Green_Life, steel SIPs have much greater free span capabilities and can be made in much longer lengths than OSB SIPs.

Panels are available up to 53ft. and with special hauling permits up to 62ft.

Posted By gosolar on 10 May 2015 06:03 PM
Any sips supplier can ship to you, it's a truck load $1,000 -$3,000 to ship small % of the job.

there are 22 manufactures out there half of them don't respond to email or return calls.

You can't use some because they only make 4x16 max, I found several that can make upto 8x24.

you can span the roof upto 24 ', so your 16' is not an issue.

wall height - IMO push it up, figure your perimeter footage add about $4 a foot of height.

I narrowed it down to 4 manufacturers out of 22, all OSB.

Chris is a good local rep for steel, but it costs more than OSB, does not have any electrical chases or conduits which means wire is surface or chase mounted.

Fastening siding, roofing and interior finishes are a bit harder IMO, but doable.

they both have pros & cons, sorry Chris, I went with the OSB for those reasons and others.


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gosolar,
initial cost is not the total cost, having personally installed all types of SIPs, you have probably have not calculated everything in your analysis of the two systems, such as vapor barriers, soffit and fascia factory finished, not to mention that termites do not eat metal

Chris you're not talking about the conduit chases that are not in your panels, add the cost to make all those electrical runs and how bad they may look surface mounted

the thin ga steel is a PIA to carefully screw things into and they can strip.

Osb is real easy

the metal can rust

Metal needs all window & doors cut you don't offer pre-cut panels

if untreated termites can eat thru the esp on both, metal has little to do with that.

the osb is more user friendly quicker to erect and wire

vapor barriers are just a few hundred dollars for home, you still need something to prevent trapped water from rusting the metal I would think ot to protect the siding from rotting from between the metal & siding

Not sure what fascia you're referring to?

but aside from that it just cost less all around

Posted By gosolar on 11 May 2015 09:25 PM
Chris you're not talking about the conduit chases that are not in your panels, add the cost to make all those electrical runs and how bad they may look surface mounted

the thin ga steel is a PIA to carefully screw things into and they can strip.

Osb is real easy

the metal can rust

Metal needs all window & doors cut you don't offer pre-cut panels

if untreated termites can eat thru the esp on both, metal has little to do with that.

the osb is more user friendly quicker to erect and wire

vapor barriers are just a few hundred dollars for home, you still need something to prevent trapped water from rusting the metal I would think ot to protect the siding from rotting from between the metal & siding

Not sure what fascia you're referring to?

but aside from that it just cost less all around

gosolar,
Because you are inexperience at contracting you will find out that electricians view OSB chases the same as doing a remodel job when pulling wire, they will charge more for it
electrical inspectors do not like wires that are hidden and not in plain view and may give you some grief about it
the furring strips are only a few hundred dollars and also benefit in your STC ratings and aid in adding future wiring by providing an accessible “raceway” , adding a switch or receptacle in the future is accomplished by simply gutting the drywall, not so simple with hidden OSB chase that now becomes a major remodel job needing to cut thru the structural component of an OSB panel to add a receptacle.
tell me how cheap your OSB SIPs are when you need to hire a structural engineer to add a light switch?
steel SIPs are galvalume steel with a 20 year warranty, they do not rot, they are not eaten by carpenter ants, termites, rodents and do not support mold growth, EPS treated with borate does deter insects
if you are worried about rusting, please tell be you are not using steel fasteners to hold the OSB SIPs together, ,

if there is just one mistake, you have now held up the job for several weeks awaiting a replacement panel and you are not generally at the top of their priority list because you already paid in full
vapor barriers: yes a few hundred dollars and the labor to install it, and install it properly! One mis-step and your wood is at risk, I have seen siding on metal skin home removed after 20 years and found them to be as new looking as the day they were installed, no rust / no rot.
your OSB roof panel overhangs must be covered with a soffit and fascia, depending on the size of the house could cost thousand more, on a metal SIP roof the soffit is already attached and finished and the kit comes with a prefinished galvalume fascia cover,
OSB panels require fasteners at every spline joint, this takes time and labor, metal SIPs I use have a T&G joint and do not require any fastening on the vertical joints, this saves materials and labor.
from “REAL” experience, I can tell you - they just cost less all around.

Posted By cmkavala on 12 May 2015 07:53 AM

Posted By gosolar on 11 May 2015 09:25 PM
Chris you're not talking about the conduit chases that are not in your panels, add the cost to make all those electrical runs and how bad they may look surface mounted

the thin ga steel is a PIA to carefully screw things into and they can strip.

Osb is real easy

the metal can rust

Metal needs all window & doors cut you don't offer pre-cut panels

if untreated termites can eat thru the esp on both, metal has little to do with that.

the osb is more user friendly quicker to erect and wire

vapor barriers are just a few hundred dollars for home, you still need something to prevent trapped water from rusting the metal I would think ot to protect the siding from rotting from between the metal & siding

Not sure what fascia you're referring to?

but aside from that it just cost less all around

gosolar,
Because you are inexperience at contracting you will find out that electricians view OSB chases the same as doing a remodel job when pulling wire, they will charge more for it
electrical inspectors do not like wires that are hidden and not in plain view and may give you some grief about it
the furring strips are only a few hundred dollars and also benefit in your STC ratings and aid in adding future wiring by providing an accessible “raceway” , adding a switch or receptacle in the future is accomplished by simply gutting the drywall, not so simple with hidden OSB chase that now becomes a major remodel job needing to cut thru the structural component of an OSB panel to add a receptacle.
tell me how cheap your OSB SIPs are when you need to hire a structural engineer to add a light switch?
steel SIPs are galvalume steel with a 20 year warranty, they do not rot, they are not eaten by carpenter ants, termites, rodents and do not support mold growth, EPS treated with borate does deter insects
if you are worried about rusting, please tell be you are not using steel fasteners to hold the OSB SIPs together, ,

if there is just one mistake, you have now held up the job for several weeks awaiting a replacement panel and you are not generally at the top of their priority list because you already paid in full
vapor barriers: yes a few hundred dollars and the labor to install it, and install it properly! One mis-step and your wood is at risk, I have seen siding on metal skin home removed after 20 years and found them to be as new looking as the day they were installed, no rust / no rot.
your OSB roof panel overhangs must be covered with a soffit and fascia, depending on the size of the house could cost thousand more, on a metal SIP roof the soffit is already attached and finished and the kit comes with a prefinished galvalume fascia cover,
OSB panels require fasteners at every spline joint, this takes time and labor, metal SIPs I use have a T&G joint and do not require any fastening on the vertical joints, this saves materials and labor.
from “REAL” experience, I can tell you - they just cost less all around.

Chis how do U know hat my experience level is, big assumption there.

Your arguments on wiring are really a bunch of crap, you're tying to justify your product.

Elect wiring is far easier and less costly with OSB than furring out walls with metal or wood furring materiel.

Speaking of walls I understand that there are issues with meeting fire codes with metal and two layers of drywall are needed is that correct?

I 've been researching sips for several months now, I never see metal sips other than U?

What is the market share of metal Vs OSB?, my guess is it's only 5-10%

I went on your web site can't find a 20 year on the sips panel, can you give me a link?

the overhangs would not cost thousands, cover with vinyl wood etc.

From my research Metal costs more, I disagree with your opinion that's it less.

You're about $2 a sq more to begin with that's $8-20,000 more.


Chris, don't want to get in a debate with you, I realize it's your biz, but don't skew the facts.

there are 22 manufactures of OSB, besides the company you rep sales for who else makes them?

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Go Solar,
I've done plenty of research on both metal and wood SIPS. Back in 99 I was looking to build a metal SIP home in ST Pete beach area. Things happen, I'm now getting to the construction of my home. Dusting off my research I find the metal SIP is without a doubt the best application in the volatile beaches. Salt, wind sand... Nasty but beautiful.
Back then I visited a metal SIP manufacturer in TPA. Small models were built for a look see at the final product. I revisited the place this January, and the models are still as tight and quiet as they were 16 years ago. I leveled the walls, still CAD 90d perfect. I was concerned about rust. Not a bit. This is an uncontrolled environment exposed to salt air.

I called Dietrich metal to question the long term integrity of metal spans in an EXPOSED environment (under porches). An engineer sent me an entire 10 year study from the galvanized society of America? Anyway, cladding wears at 50 years, structural rusts at 100 years. Again..EXPOSED. I asked about alloys like Galvalume, says it'll have a longer life due alloyed, painted and not exposed.

I considered a concrete home, however the architect mentioned his architect brother built one 20 years ago in Port Charlotte. The sand wore the cement down to rebar. I asked 5 local experienced architects what they consider the best home for beaches, metal SIPS were the most bullet proof and cost effective they could think of. When I took my plans to the local board, the inspector said he wished all home were built like this. Not a question from anyone except how much wind can such a building endure. I proudly said..175mph. BTW I live in a FEMA 142 wind zone, Atlantic side is 155.

The entire exercise is to beat the man at the insurance game. I called USAA after we were told few would write anymore after the hurricane bitch slapping the state took the last 10 years. I was lucky and found a senior agent who knew of metal SIPS. sent me to a few addresses in PT Charlotte to see some metal SIP homes that withstood I believe Charley back in '05. I look forward to building in the next few months, will keep everyone informed. Side note..bugs eat everything on the beaches, all god's lil' chillen' would have a field day around here. Not enough Orkin men in the world would be able save an OSB product.

Caveat..I'm not making any plug for Structall, it's a local but since 99 there's a few more companies that are in the biz, and I'm sure the technology has advanced since. But when I saw those building after 16 years, I'm certain I made the right decision.

Wow all that info for your first post..............

almost looks like someone is a troll

gosolar,
experience or lack therof, is evident in every post
I await your project photos to see if you are actually going to do something :)

So you fail to respond to points I made?

Another point you may ignore

Blisters can occur when the metal panel's is exposed to the sun, resulting in thermal expansion trapped under the panel face. 

Isn't this "off-gassing" of the polyurethane glue holding the EPS to the steel skin?

With OSB SIPs this doesn't happen because the OSB skins are breathable and allow the gases to escape.

Steel is not breathable.

Green_Life I am not a contractor but a metal SIPS homeowner and for what it is worth I will let you know from a homeowner’s perspective. I to believed metal SIPS was the way to go and after constructing with metal SIPS I can honestly say I will never use Metal SIPS again. This is just my opinion and could have been the contractor, but the finishes are terrible, there is constant popping in the panels which is supposedly “normal” all my interior walls that are against the panels lean (not plumb) The furring strips for the electrical was not in my opinion a smart way to run electricity as there was a big space at the bottom of the floor and made attaching baseboards near impossible also the electric boxes along the SIPS panel are carved out removing insulation and does it weaken the panel not sure. The soffits are the panels themselves and when dented look terrible. Try attaching gutters to the thin metal fascia impossible. Try finding a roofing company to install a roof on metal SIPS I am concerned with future rust in the panels Lastly I do not believe my electric bills are any lower than what I had. I hope that in whatever way you choose to build you do a lot of research. Florida has some of the best public records do your own investigating on your contractor( company and owners name).The counties Clerk of the Courts websites have some great reading look up your contractor. Go to several surrounding counties in your investigating and lastly take your contract to an attorney for review before you sign. My future next home will be ICF can never go wrong with concrete

I write very little on this site because it is a haven for people with a secret ax to grind who just want to verbally destroy anyone else with a view/experience contrary to theirs. So, "gosolar" don't get on folks with only one or a few posts; just like you wrote " Chis how do U know hat my experience level is, big assumption there." I have built SIPs homes since 1974 including Metal and OSB. I know Chris K. has been building with them since about the same time. I have built with double wall, 2x6 with Thermax on the interior, re-habilitated old (1850's, 1870's) homes using the same techniques, Timber Frame and Post and Beam with SIPs enclosures, open web truss exterior walls and TJI walls and other systems. No ax to grind with any of them. I have found that Metal SIPs are the all-around best home and commercial building system there is available at this point in time; and for all the reasons and many more that Chris K. has written about. As far as cost is, I have found that after all details of building are truly considered Metal SIPs are the best alternative. And there are a few good manufacturers. I will not even try to explain why OSB SIPs manufacturers outnumber Metal SIPs manufacturers. It's really a very easy answer. I have used electrical subs who hate OSB SIP electric chases, upcharge for having to run wiring thru them and the same ones love Metal SIPs with open wiring runs created with strapping. And for the person named "disappointed-sips" (are you the same one who posted about this some time ago?) I will venture a bet that you had an inexperienced contractor (i.e. "interior walls that are not plumb") and definitely an inexperienced electrical sub who doesn't know about pancake boxes (hence his need to "carve out insulation)". Also, baseboards should have been easy to install if the contractor had installed strapping in the correct location. Sorry to say you may have chosen a good product with an inexperienced installer/contractor. As far as popping, I have seen this written about one time on this forum, none on others. The problem turned out to be a re-seller of factory reject panels (like you said, do your research.) ".... ICF can never go wrong with concrete" .... Wow, I have seen almost unbelievable blowouts and wavy walls, un-level tops of walls, parallelograms instead of rectangles and some not even parallelograms, caved in walls, leaks, leaks, leaks; all things that cost huge sums of $$$ to correct or hide. All of it, and I do mean all of it, was due to people not knowing what they were doing. Thank goodness there ARE good contractors out there. Read some lawsuits; you will find error after error caused by faulty workmanship. That's my rant for today. Do your due diligence. RichM