Barry - I agree with virtually everything you have said especially the "change" issue. Even wood at 90% humidity stays dimensionally stable if keep there. The one thing that changes with f.a. to radiant is that all the heat has to past through the wood with radiant. Have read some of the other threads about heating the ceiling, why don't you leave the floor alone and screw the warm board to the ceiling? I remember systems back in Ontario years ago when we stapled crimped wire to the plaster lath and then embedded it with the plaster, similiar to the system Badger was describing.

We are in two different worlds now. I design systems for retrofit and new construction. I see little use for sub-floor systems in new construction and little use for the incomparable Warmboard in renovation.

For new construction it's probably going to be a sandwich dictated by floor coverings. Warmboard rarely makes sense to me unless the structural aspects are considered (eliminating the need for a sub-floor where allowed). One also has to be aware that Warmboard end runs the mechanical contractor to the builder,so mechanical installation, sub-system design and heat sources can be a concern. I understand the logic, but your design and installation should not be left to the average general.

I thought I would jump in and ask a few questions since we are also planning our home with some Warmboard.

Our downstairs (all bedrooms & bathrooms) will be slab on grade - we are planning for finished stained & textured concrete in hallways,& 2 of 3 bedrooms (assuming we can find an acceptable finisher locally) - we would like engineered hardwood in the master bedroom - tile or finished concrete will be in all bathrooms.

The upstairs is a open room concept with no walls between all rooms (Kitchen, Dining, Great Room, Living Room) - Since we wanted engineered wood upstairs (or, gasp, even laminate for a few years) we choose Warmboard. The local Warmboard rep has our plans for the upstairs design and should have the recommendations back soon.

I think we will have about 4-5 zones downstairs in the slab for the bedrooms, master bathroom, and hallway - upstairs I think we could get away with one zone for the entire floor...but will wait for the designers to get back to me.

My question is are there any problems we should look out for - keep in mind we are in a pretty temperate climate zone 03 - Warmboard seems like a great solution for our design, as it will be better for the living areas since it will have a faster response time than the slab downstairs. I prefer cooler sleeping zones anyway.

Badger:

I wanted to set the record straight regarding the design and installation of the WB system: GC vs. radiant sub installing the boards.

The mechanical system design is still done by the radiant folks. The orientation of the WB panels is dictated by the joist direction, certainly, but the zoning, tube run lengths, manifold placement, and every other variable regarding the heating portion is done with the radiant designer calling the shots. It is a somewhat more complicated endeavor simply because there is one more level of coordination of trades to consider, and because that coordination happens sooner in the building cycle, BUT the people at WB are skilled at quarter-backing all that. I believe there are heating people on this forum that can attest to that first-hand.

If the radiant installer/designer team were more aware of the asset they have in WB for the coordination of design, I doubt that it would be the issue that it seems to be on the surface. The coordination of design between the structural aspects and thermal performance aspects simply requires all the parties to work together. Your WB rep can be the pivot person for that. Just do it early in the design process before the engineering work is complete.

Having said that, the system design notwithstanding, there are some advantages to the construction process to just get the house built and deal with the radiant installation later. That is one of the calling cards of the after-subfloor panel systems, including the one I sell in the Northwest: Ecowarm. These products can go into new construction or retro-fit equally as well, provide similar performance in some cases, and have a much reduced impact on the pre-planning required for WB or any cementitius pour.

I will withhold a response to Montysc because I feel a sales pitch coming on - my left eye is beginning to twitch and my fingers on the keyboard are starting to tighten up.

Well put Mr. LaDuke, but easier said than done.

Sell hello to Hoyt for me.

I am not looking for a sales pitch at this point, but appreciate the information provided here.

I am already structurally engineered for Warmboard, after looking at several alternatives - the main questions I have are there any gotchas I should watch for?  And what about the single zone for the open area?

Thanks!

P.S. I forgot to add that we have also designed for the possiblity of using the Ecowarm product in our design as well (coincidences are strange!)

Badger:

Will pass along the greeting! By the way, thanks for being such an active member of this forum. I lurk more than I contribute largely because others wiser than I post such erudite messages that the most I would muster is either an "amen" or a "what the heck?!"

Montysc:

Tongue-in-cheek anti-"sales" comment on my part. I respect the intent of these forums as being informational rather than another opportunity for reps to hawk their wares. But I am in the business of sales, so I have to monitor myself quite hard sometimes when there are so many open doors to answer a questions with "well, heck! My product can take care of that for you!" I look to the moderator to help keep me in line.

Having said that, I'm happy to engage in a more in-depth comparison of Ecowarm and the alternatives privately. Feel free to contact me anytime. I'm pretty easy to find.

Doesn't it kind of tick you off when a poster asks a good question that results in a good ensuing discussion to address his/her concerns, and then never comes back to acknowledge the responses? Sure would be nice to know if the OP has even read the thread. Maybe we should make it a practice that after about a week the OP be specifically asked to acknowledge the comments, and if no response let the thread go off to never never land. Of course, the downside of taking this tack would be that oftentimes meaningful discussions would not happen.

Posted By dmaceld on 06 Mar 2011 09:15 PM
Doesn't it kind of tick you off when a poster asks a good question that results in a good ensuing discussion to address his/her concerns, and then never comes back to acknowledge the responses? Sure would be nice to know if the OP has even read the thread. Maybe we should make it a practice that after about a week the OP be specifically asked to acknowledge the comments, and if no response let the thread go off to never never land. Of course, the downside of taking this tack would be that oftentimes meaningful discussions would not happen.

That would be making the whole discussion about THEM, and everyone else who read or contributed would miss out.  Any good question that puts people in the mindset to figure it all out is worthwhile whether the framer of the question bothers to read it or not, others will.

Spam or bot-generated trolls/fluff to promote an agenda could be dispatched without being missed though.

Sorry for resurrecting this old thread.

I am considering WarmBoard on my home. Does anyone have a definitive cost of the boards per square foot? All I want is the cost of the WarmBoard, not installation or the rest of the radiant floor needs/materials. Someone floated $7 a square foot but I'm unsure if that is accurate or what that includes, or is just the cost of the boards them selves.

Is EcoWarm similarly priced?

warmboard sells direct.. just call them up.