Scott9345
New Member
Posts:27
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| 13 Jan 2009 06:29 PM |
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I found a company that can rent me a Closed Loop Ultrasonic Flow Meter for $ 150 per day.
I've looked to purchace one and they are $ 500 and up. Has anyone tried this before?
I don't even want to bother with my install contractor because of ineptness.
I have a 5 ton Climatemaster Tranquility 27 that needs a GPM on 15. I know I am close but not exact. Does a couple of GMP's difference really make an efficiency issue?
Thank you,
Scott |
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waterpirate
Basic Member
Posts:467
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| 13 Jan 2009 06:43 PM |
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Hi Scott,
I dare say that for a 150.00 a day rental you could purchase and install a set of pete's ports on your unit and monitor your system via them from now to infinity. I have also found that using an infrared thermometer to measure the loop temp. is also innacurate, so again the pete's ports and a good digital probe for temp.
Eric |
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| Eric Sackett<br>www.weberwelldrilling.com<br >Visit our Geothermal Resource Center! |
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Scott9345
New Member
Posts:27
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| 13 Jan 2009 06:47 PM |
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Thanks, where can I find the "Pete's Ports"? |
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waterpirate
Basic Member
Posts:467
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| 13 Jan 2009 07:59 PM |
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Hi Scott,
Pete's ports are readily available from GSC, Flowcenter Products, and Geoflow. It will solve your data issues low tech, low cost, and reliable.
Hope this helps
Eric |
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| Eric Sackett<br>www.weberwelldrilling.com<br >Visit our Geothermal Resource Center! |
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engineer
Veteran Member
Posts:2749
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| 13 Jan 2009 08:07 PM |
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Agree that Pete's ports are the way to go. Both temp and flow can be obtained through them with inexpensive guages
I wonder if inaccuracy of infrared thermometers arises from overlooking various target materials emissivity. Cheapo IR thermometers have emissivity preset at 0.95. Better ones provide ability to adjust. Rough bronze (of which my Pete's Ports are made) has an emissivity of 0.55. Considering that emissivity ranges from 0.0 to 1.00, that might introduce a substantial error.
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Curt Kinder <br><br>
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
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waterpirate
Basic Member
Posts:467
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| 14 Jan 2009 06:31 AM |
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I used to rely on the infrared for a ballpark idea, but not anymore. I recently had a customer that had questions about ewt on a vertical closed loop. He said the ewt was falling steadily and it was alarming. I was alarmed also but allways question the method of data collection first.
He had the best infrared I had ever seen. Cost around 500.00 he said. Unit had many adjustments and could be calibrated.
When I stuck in the thermometer, it was off by 20 degrees. Went and bought second thermo and verified my readings as the same, this time infrared was off by 10 degrees.
I will never use one agin. It may have been operator error for the infrared but...... without good data, you know the reast.
Eric |
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| Eric Sackett<br>www.weberwelldrilling.com<br >Visit our Geothermal Resource Center! |
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Brock
Advanced Member
Posts:599
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| 14 Jan 2009 03:06 PM |
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I agree that infrared's are typically off. But they can be good for certain things; I often use them for temperature differentials, even if they are off the delta is usually just about right on. I also have found if you put a piece of masking tape on copper, brass or steel pipe it is a LOT closer.
IR's have their place and as long as you understand what they’re doing they can be useful. |
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| Green Bay, WI. - 4 ton horizontal goethermal, 16k gallon indoor pool, 3kw solar PV setup, 2 ton air to air HP, 3400 sq ft |
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joe.ami
Veteran Member
Posts:4377
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| 14 Jan 2009 07:43 PM |
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You may already have ports on your system for measuring temp and flow. If not it is not a great DIY install job.
If your installer is not helpful, ask manufacturer or distributer for a reference to a different one. You might also try here by telling folks where you live and asking for positive experiences.
Good luck,
Joe |
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Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort! |
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tuffluckdriller
Advanced Member
Posts:630
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| 15 Jan 2009 02:29 AM |
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How do you measure flow via the P/T port? |
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| Clark Timothy ([email protected])<br>Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!<br>www.pinksgeothermal.com |
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waterpirate
Basic Member
Posts:467
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| 15 Jan 2009 06:29 AM |
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The manufacturer has a cut sheet for the unit in question. You take a pressure reading in and out. The difference, or "pressure drop" across the coil correlates to a chart in the cut sheet. It is a function of friction loss through the coil as measured in psi that converts on the chart to gpm.
Eric |
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| Eric Sackett<br>www.weberwelldrilling.com<br >Visit our Geothermal Resource Center! |
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tuffluckdriller
Advanced Member
Posts:630
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| 15 Jan 2009 09:49 AM |
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So on a radiant floor, unless I had that cut sheet, I couldn't figure that... |
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| Clark Timothy ([email protected])<br>Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!<br>www.pinksgeothermal.com |
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joe.ami
Veteran Member
Posts:4377
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| 16 Jan 2009 01:35 AM |
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Sounds like a nice brain teaser for Engineers lunch hour :) |
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Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort! |
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waterpirate
Basic Member
Posts:467
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| 16 Jan 2009 06:19 AM |
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Posted By tuffluckdriller on 01/15/2009 9:49 AM
So on a radiant floor, unless I had that cut sheet, I couldn't figure that... Without the cut sheet for the friction loss in a given coil you are dead in the water. If you installed pete's ports on the outgoing and incoming side of the radiant floor tubing you could determine flow rate based on the friction loss of the total run of tubing and get pretty close. Eric |
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| Eric Sackett<br>www.weberwelldrilling.com<br >Visit our Geothermal Resource Center! |
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engineer
Veteran Member
Posts:2749
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| 16 Jan 2009 08:31 AM |
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Get the coil flow vs delta-P (on the cut sheet)
Quick Engineer joke: Physicist, Mathematician, Engineer all asked for volume of red rubber playball
Physicist - finds large beaker with volume lines, fills partway with water, submerges ball, notes water level change / displacement - Voila!
Mathematician - measures circumference, calculates radius, applies formula for volume of a sphere (4/3 Pi r^3) - Voila
Engineer - peers at bookshelf, pulls down Cooper's consoildated handbook of recreational systems, looks up outdoor -> Playground -> Athletic Accessories -> spherical equipment -> Rubber playballs, Red - table of properties thereof -> Manufacturer model number cross reference - Voila! |
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Curt Kinder <br><br>
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
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waterpirate
Basic Member
Posts:467
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| 16 Jan 2009 06:40 PM |
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Posted By engineer on 01/16/2009 8:31 AM
Get the coil flow vs delta-P (on the cut sheet)
Quick Engineer joke: Physicist, Mathematician, Engineer all asked for volume of red rubber playball
Physicist - finds large beaker with volume lines, fills partway with water, submerges ball, notes water level change / displacement - Voila!
Mathematician - measures circumference, calculates radius, applies formula for volume of a sphere (4/3 Pi r^3) - Voila
Engineer - peers at bookshelf, pulls down Cooper's consoildated handbook of recreational systems, looks up outdoor -> Playground -> Athletic Accessories -> spherical equipment -> Rubber playballs, Red - table of properties thereof -> Manufacturer model number cross reference - Voila! Engineer, ROTFLMAO Eric |
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| Eric Sackett<br>www.weberwelldrilling.com<br >Visit our Geothermal Resource Center! |
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