Rainwater Harvesting System, North Central Florida
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DaveSUser is Offline
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18 Sep 2009 03:04 PM
Originally we thought we would be all set with a 6000 to 8000 gallon below ground rainwater harvesting system, but we recently got our lot perk test report stating the water is only a few feet down and that fill will need to be brought in to raise the slab foundation of our new home and that the septic will need to be in a mound. This leaves me to believe the same holds true that the rainwater cistern. Our lot is large enough but flat and mounds don't work (unless on Dolly P) and above ground tanks are ugly.

Does anyone know of an above ground 6000 to 8000 tank that is not an eyesore?

Is this now becoming an engineering nightmare that will add a lot of construction costs to put an in ground rainwater harvesting system?
 
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
 
DaveS





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18 Sep 2009 04:24 PM
It may look odd, but in Hawaii they use rain water a lot around the islands and they use a lot of outdoor pools as storage tanks. As we flew over the volcano I commented on how many people had pools and the pilot said 95% of them were for rain water collection which explained why most of them looked trapped over. So if you don't mind the look it would be the cheapest way to hold that much water. The other advantage is you could place it so you have gravity feed from some basic thing.

You could go in ground, if you do just make sure you have a sump pit below the tank in case you want / need to drain it. When full of water it doesn't matter how much water is in the ground, but when the tank is empty it can pop out of the ground like a boat in water if you don't drain the water from around / underneath it.


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DaveSUser is Offline
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18 Sep 2009 07:04 PM
I don't like the pool idea, even though we will have a pool. Our pool will be filled by rainwater as well as laundry, toilet flushing and maybe potable water. But interesting concept. Thanks


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18 Sep 2009 10:14 PM
A 5000 gal tank is what, 8'x8'? Might be able to put it inside somewhere.



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19 Sep 2009 02:41 AM
Posted By DaveS on 09/18/2009 7:04 PM
I don't like the pool idea, even though we will have a pool. Our pool will be filled by rainwater as well as laundry, toilet flushing and maybe potable water. But interesting concept. Thanks
Gray water from sinks and laundry should usually be filtered and used promptly.  If you mix rainwater with gray water, it may make your tank a bit funky.  Toilet waste will need serious treatment and there are likely some code issue to deal with.  Since you are doing percolation tests, I assume you will have a septic system, correct?

Bruce


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19 Sep 2009 07:02 AM
Posted By Bruce Frey on 09/19/2009 2:41 AM
Posted By DaveS on 09/18/2009 7:04 PM
I don't like the pool idea, even though we will have a pool. Our pool will be filled by rainwater as well as laundry, toilet flushing and maybe potable water. But interesting concept. Thanks
Gray water from sinks and laundry should usually be filtered and used promptly.  If you mix rainwater with gray water, it may make your tank a bit funky.  Toilet waste will need serious treatment and there are likely some code issue to deal with.  Since you are doing percolation tests, I assume you will have a septic system, correct?

Bruce
Hi Bruce,

I'm not planning on using gray water and never considered toilet water filtering just using rainwater for all my needs. The filtered potable water portion will only be used in severe water shortage situations and only if it is within budget. Yes we will have a septic system.

DaveS


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19 Sep 2009 08:24 AM
Are you going to use an aerated/aerobic system?


DaveSUser is Offline
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19 Sep 2009 08:39 AM
Posted By jonr on 09/19/2009 8:24 AM
Are you going to use an aerated/aerobic system?


Good question. I haven't got that far in my research. Whatever is best for filtering for the best price is all I can say for now. Any suggestions? I won't be reusing gray water, just rainwater harvesting. I am picturing one line from 6000 gallon cistern with simple filtration for toilet flushing and laundry, while using a separate line for heavy filtering to a small holding tank for the potable water.

DaveS


AltonUser is Offline
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19 Sep 2009 09:04 AM

DaveS,

Since you may end up with two different water systems for your new home, be aware that in some areas of this country, the water lines must be kept apart by a certain number of inches to avoid cross-contamination.  Be sure to ask about local rules before you start installing water lines.



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19 Sep 2009 09:26 AM
From what I read, a three chamber aerated septic tank will greatly reduce the amount of clogging solids that go out to the field and the size of the field needed. A slightly over sized tank also helps reduce the pump outs needed.



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19 Sep 2009 09:31 AM
Posted By Alton on 09/19/2009 9:04 AM

DaveS,

Since you may end up with two different water systems for your new home, be aware that in some areas of this country, the water lines must be kept apart by a certain number of inches to avoid cross-contamination.  Be sure to ask about local rules before you start installing water lines.


Oh yeah, you're right there. I'm not even sure if I do keep the two systems apart that I will get approval. It seems this is all pretty new and building codes haven't kept up and there may be some extra hurtles to overcome.



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19 Sep 2009 09:34 AM
Posted By jonr on 09/19/2009 9:26 AM
From what I read, a three chamber aerated septic tank will greatly reduce the amount of clogging solids that go out to the field and the size of the field needed. A slightly over sized tank also helps reduce the pump outs needed.



Good info, when we get to the septic tank at our next build meeting I will ask.

Thanks


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19 Sep 2009 09:59 AM

DaveS,

An above ground mound system for the septic may not be needed.  I know that an engineered system has been approved in the Tallahassee area some time ago.  This engineered system used an aerated aerobic (not the usual anaerobic) method.  The effluent was used for irrigation of the plants in the yard.  Very neat system and not noticeable.



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DaveSUser is Offline
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19 Sep 2009 10:17 AM
Posted By Alton on 09/19/2009 9:59 AM

DaveS,

An above ground mound system for the septic may not be needed.  I know that an engineered system has been approved in the Tallahassee area some time ago.  This engineered system used an aerated aerobic (not the usual anaerobic) method.  The effluent was used for irrigation of the plants in the yard.  Very neat system and not noticeable.



Do you know where I can get some more info on that system?

Thanks,
DaveS


Bruce FreyUser is Offline
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19 Sep 2009 10:30 AM
Posted By DaveS on 09/19/2009 7:02 AM
Posted By Bruce Frey on 09/19/2009 2:41 AM
Posted By DaveS on 09/18/2009 7:04 PM
I don't like the pool idea, even though we will have a pool. Our pool will be filled by rainwater as well as laundry, toilet flushing and maybe potable water. But interesting concept. Thanks
Gray water from sinks and laundry should usually be filtered and used promptly.  If you mix rainwater with gray water, it may make your tank a bit funky.  Toilet waste will need serious treatment and there are likely some code issue to deal with.  Since you are doing percolation tests, I assume you will have a septic system, correct?

Bruce
Hi Bruce,

I'm not planning on using gray water and never considered toilet water filtering just using rainwater for all my needs. The filtered potable water portion will only be used in severe water shortage situations and only if it is within budget. Yes we will have a septic system.

DaveS

Sorry, Dave...I misread your post (probably not enough coffee on board).  I thought you wer plannng to harvest gray and black water as well.

Bruce


DaveSUser is Offline
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19 Sep 2009 10:38 AM
Posted By Bruce Frey on 09/19/2009 10:30 AM
Posted By DaveS on 09/19/2009 7:02 AM
Posted By Bruce Frey on 09/19/2009 2:41 AM
Posted By DaveS on 09/18/2009 7:04 PM
I don't like the pool idea, even though we will have a pool. Our pool will be filled by rainwater as well as laundry, toilet flushing and maybe potable water. But interesting concept. Thanks
Gray water from sinks and laundry should usually be filtered and used promptly.  If you mix rainwater with gray water, it may make your tank a bit funky.  Toilet waste will need serious treatment and there are likely some code issue to deal with.  Since you are doing percolation tests, I assume you will have a septic system, correct?

Bruce
Hi Bruce,

I'm not planning on using gray water and never considered toilet water filtering just using rainwater for all my needs. The filtered potable water portion will only be used in severe water shortage situations and only if it is within budget. Yes we will have a septic system.

DaveS

Sorry, Dave...I misread your post (probably not enough coffee on board).  I thought you wer plannng to harvest gray and black water as well.

Bruce
Bruce,

I thought you may have misread my post. No harm, no foul. Its all good, plus you were trying to help. Besides someone reading here may want to filter gray and black water. Thanks for participating in the discussion; apology excepted, but not necessary.

DaveS


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19 Sep 2009 10:49 AM

DaveS,

Ask the state health department for a list of approved septic systems.  Also ask about the process of using an engineered system.

At this point in time I remember how the system operated but not the name of the system or engineer that designed it for the house that I toured.

I saw this engineered system a few years ago while attending a Parade of Homes in Tallahassee.  It really stood out to me since I was in the process of developing a large subdivision that required septic tanks.

Here is a web site that explains the basics of an aerated aerobic septic system:
http://www.inspect-ny.com/septic/altaerobic.htm



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19 Sep 2009 11:37 AM

DaveS,

Mark D. Repasky, PE, Civil Engineer, in Tallahassee is the person that I met that specializes in wastewater recycling.  He told me that the aerated aerobic system cost about $12,000.  This was for a large home in May 2004.

Here is more info on the engineer from his bio:
Mr. Repasky graduated with a BS in Civil Engineering from UF in 1978. After a few months working as a Civil Engineer, he was employed by Harris Corporation, Melbourne Florida. At Harris, he worked as a mechanical stress analyst, and designed a major substructure for the Galileo Space Probe (which was recently plunged into Jupiter’s atmosphere). Later, Harris Corporation sent him to Argentina as Field Engineer for 3 years, constructing Satellite Communications Earth Stations. Continuing his work overseas, Repasky spent several years designing and building Air Freight facilities for Flying Tigers Airlines, out of their Los Angeles headquarters. purchased Flying Tigers, Mark went independent, consulting in California for 7 years. In 1997, he returned to his hometown of Tallahassee. Mr. Repasky became involved in onsite wastewater systems design and construction in 1999. His company has designed and overseen installation of more than 500 performance-based and engineered systems in the Florida Keys, as well as dozens more statewide. He is currently involved in the design of the advanced wastewater treatment and reuse system for the South Shoal Development at Alligator Point in Franklin County.



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Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979
DaveSUser is Offline
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19 Sep 2009 12:20 PM
Posted By Alton on 09/19/2009 11:37 AM

DaveS,

Mark D. Repasky, PE, Civil Engineer, in Tallahassee is the person that I met that specializes in wastewater recycling.  He told me that the aerated aerobic system cost about $12,000.  This was for a large home in May 2004.

Here is more info on the engineer from his bio:
Mr. Repasky graduated with a BS in Civil Engineering from UF in 1978. After a few months working as a Civil Engineer, he was employed by Harris Corporation, Melbourne Florida. At Harris, he worked as a mechanical stress analyst, and designed a major substructure for the Galileo Space Probe (which was recently plunged into Jupiter’s atmosphere). Later, Harris Corporation sent him to Argentina as Field Engineer for 3 years, constructing Satellite Communications Earth Stations. Continuing his work overseas, Repasky spent several years designing and building Air Freight facilities for Flying Tigers Airlines, out of their Los Angeles headquarters. purchased Flying Tigers, Mark went independent, consulting in California for 7 years. In 1997, he returned to his hometown of Tallahassee. Mr. Repasky became involved in onsite wastewater systems design and construction in 1999. His company has designed and overseen installation of more than 500 performance-based and engineered systems in the Florida Keys, as well as dozens more statewide. He is currently involved in the design of the advanced wastewater treatment and reuse system for the South Shoal Development at Alligator Point in Franklin County.

Thanks Bruce,

Sound like Mark Repasky know his stuff.

I will ask my Contractor to looking into this. I sure would like not to have a big hump in the yard. We are trying to keep the property as natural as possible and a hump would look very unnatural on this piece of property.

DaveS



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19 Sep 2009 09:57 PM
Posted By DaveS on 09/18/2009 3:04 PM
Originally we thought we would be all set with a 6000 to 8000 gallon below ground rainwater harvesting system, but we recently got our lot perk test report stating the water is only a few feet down and that fill will need to be brought in to raise the slab foundation of our new home and that the septic will need to be in a mound. This leaves me to believe the same holds true that the rainwater cistern. Our lot is large enough but flat and mounds don't work (unless on Dolly P) and above ground tanks are ugly.

Does anyone know of an above ground 6000 to 8000 tank that is not an eyesore?

Is this now becoming an engineering nightmare that will add a lot of construction costs to put an in ground rainwater harvesting system?
 
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
 
DaveS




Why consider an underground rainwater storage tank when your water table is so high?  Why not just have a shallow well dug and well pump installed and use the earth as your water storage tank?  Just be sure to locate the well far enough from your septic system to remain in compliance with applicable codes (and common sense).


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