Dreamn2build
New Member
Posts:11
 |
| 19 Apr 2009 06:41 PM |
|
I am sure this subject has been beaten to death, but.... I talked to a builder in my area (Clarksville, TN) today about cost difference from standard stick building compared to ICF. His response was that I could expect to pay about an additional $50,000 on a 3000 sq ft house. Does this sound about normal? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Chris Johnson
Advanced Member
Posts:877
|
| 19 Apr 2009 08:37 PM |
|
If you build a house to code only, did not exceed anywhere, probably a realistic answer!!!
$ 50k more on 3000 sq.ft. seems too much of a difference.
Is your area 2x4 or 2x6 min. for exterior wall? What about insulation value? Has the blueprints been completed yet?
|
|
| Chris Johnson - Pro ICF<br>North of 49 |
|
|
arkie6
Veteran Member
Posts:1453
|
| 19 Apr 2009 08:51 PM |
|
Seems kinda high to me. But what is the cost/sq ft for standard construction in your area? |
|
|
|
|
robinnc
Advanced Member
Posts:586
|
| 19 Apr 2009 10:36 PM |
|
I've read over the years on some other forums that it is quite a bit less exp. to build stick in TN than it is here(Charlotte)....I don't think it's materials but labor in that area.
ps....forgot to add.....find some ICF folks in your area and get several quotes to compare. The biggest problem with ICF is FINDING several GC's that DO ICF............:(......Maybe some folks on here can give you some leeds in your area. ICF is still the BEST way to go especially if this is your 'last' house.
That price seems very high. Almost 15% higher than stick when it should be approx. 5% basing on $100/sf for general generic pricing.
|
|
|
|
|
wes
Advanced Member
Posts:810
|
| 20 Apr 2009 06:37 AM |
|
For a 3000 sf hom: a ranch (one story) home would have the most outside walls of any style. So let us assume 240 lineal feet of ICF wall. Clarksville is about 75 miles from my home, and I think most costs will be about the same, so I will use the same ball park numbers as I would use here in Murray. Mind you these are very 'ball park' numbers, but I normally place a premium of about $50 per lineal foot of ICF walls. So for this example, the upcharge would be about $12,000. Now this example is based on a very simple building footprint, and this would likely be the minimum upcharge. However, I think the quote of $50,000 is more than it should be.
|
|
| Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected] |
|
|
jamesmacdonald1
New Member
Posts:95
|
| 20 Apr 2009 07:02 AM |
|
My experience has been closer to 15K to 20K more for ICF vs stick built on approx 3000 sq ft (2 storeys). |
|
|
|
|
icfblocks
Basic Member
Posts:202
|
| 20 Apr 2009 11:26 AM |
|
there are ICF contractors and sub contractors within range of you. Try Hudnall Building. Phone no. 270-532-0387 One of the best in the business.
|
|
| Thanks,<br>Tom<br>www.advbuildingtech.com |
|
|
Dreamn2build
New Member
Posts:11
|
| 20 Apr 2009 06:47 PM |
|
Thanks for the responses. I was just curious as my wife and I haven't made time to sit down with a builder and discuss the floor plans that we have picked out. We were in a subdivision just outside Clarksville looking at new houses and the builder happened to be there. Thats where the comment about $50,000 increase came from.
We have been weighing the option of building ourselves vs. hiring (primarily for time saving). However we still have far more research left before making a decision. So far, our thoughts are leaning towards a passive solar house, but haven't found just enough information to justify the cost from just a ICF with standard heating and cooling (central w/ heat pump).
Anyhow thanks again. |
|
|
|
|
jamesmacdonald1
New Member
Posts:95
|
| 21 Apr 2009 08:31 AM |
|
If you are planning a passive solar home, have the right design (correctly designed overhangs to allow winter sun and block summer sun), right building orientation (south facing, etc), right wall assembly (maximize insulation on the exterior of the concrete with something like Durisol), etc. I think it will be well worth the extra time and cost, especially if it is a home that you plan on staying in for an extended period of time.
http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/designing_remodeling/index.cfm/mytopic=10250
Has some good information for people starting the process and learning about passive solar design - especially if you plan on designing it yourself. |
|
|
|
|
Hoowood
New Member
Posts:78
|
| 28 Apr 2009 01:18 PM |
|
Posted By Dreamn2build on 04/20/2009 6:47 PM
Thanks for the responses. I was just curious as my wife and I haven't made time to sit down with a builder and discuss the floor plans that we have picked out. We were in a subdivision just outside Clarksville looking at new houses and the builder happened to be there. Thats where the comment about $50,000 increase came from. We have been weighing the option of building ourselves vs. hiring (primarily for time saving). However we still have far more research left before making a decision. So far, our thoughts are leaning towards a passive solar house, but haven't found just enough information to justify the cost from just a ICF with standard heating and cooling (central w/ heat pump). Anyhow thanks again. What are you, respectivly the builder you met, comparing. Take his SF / price and tell us what you have seen, that you get for X price. Than, once we know what you have seen and which price you have been told we can add the value that you expect, when you think about a passive solar house. Than you have to decide about home quality and than at least I can give you a detailed pricing on your dream home. Estimate beween $105/ sf ft and $180/sf . Add a quality definition list
Home Quality Definitions |
Foundation
|
Item |
Economy |
Standard |
Above Average |
Premium |
|
Foundation Shape |
Rectangle or L-shape. |
Rectangle or L-shape with one or two offsets and/or cantilevers. |
Mostly L- or T-shape with several offsets or cantilevers. |
Irregular more often than not. Multiple offsets and angled sections with cantilevered areas such as bay or bow windows. |
|
Offsets |
None. |
One or two offsets and/or cantilevers. |
Several offsets or cantilevers. |
Multiple offsets and angled sections with cantilevered areas such as bay or bow windows. |
Roof
|
Item |
Economy |
Standard |
Above Average |
Premium |
|
Type |
Straight gable. |
Gable or hip with one or two overbuilds. |
Gable or hip, with several overbuilds and/or dormers. |
Gable, hip, or combination. Multiple overbuilds to accommodate shape of the home, with several dormers as well. |
|
Style |
Manufactured roof trusses or conventional stick frame. |
Manufactured roof trusses or conventional stick frame. |
Manufactured roof trusses or conventional stick frame. |
Conventional stick framing (due to the complexity of shape). |
|
Slope |
Less than 6/12. |
Less than 6/12. |
6/12 to 8/12. |
Often 8/12 or higher. |
|
Material |
Asphalt composition or asphalt shingle. |
Asphalt composition to lower-end architectural composition or asphalt shingle. |
High-end architectural composition shingle to metal and/or concrete tile. |
Highest quality roof covering. Metal, slate, or clay tile not uncommon. |
Exterior Walls
|
Item |
Economy |
Standard |
Above Average |
Premium |
|
Siding |
Vinyl or aluminum to Masonite. |
Medium-grade vinyl or aluminum siding to Masonite or natural wood (based on climate). |
Depends on style of home (cape cod vs. colonial vs. contemporary): high-grade vinyl or aluminum siding or Masonite or natural wood. |
Depends on style of home (cape cod vs. colonial vs. contemporary): any siding is highest quality of vinyl, aluminum, Masonite, or natural wood. |
|
Veneer |
Small amount of brick veneer (like wainscot). |
Often masonry veneer on a portion of home. |
Possible masonry veneer or stucco finish on entire home. |
Often masonry veneer or stucco finish on entire home. |
|
Decoration |
None usually. |
None usually. |
Columns, pediments, or ornate handrail on porch. |
Quoins, keystones, columns, pediments, or ornate handrails on porch standard. |
Interior Walls
|
Item |
Economy |
Standard |
Above Average |
Premium |
|
Material |
Plaster on wood lath or gypsum drywall. |
Plaster on wood lath or gypsum drywall. |
Plaster on wood lath or gypsum drywall. |
Plaster on wood lath or gypsum drywall. |
|
Coverings |
Paint or inexpensive wallpaper or sheet paneling. |
Paint with wallpaper in the bathroom/kitchen. Possible higher-grade sheet or natural-wood paneling. |
Paint with high-end wallpaper in bathrooms/kitchen. Wallpaper borders and natural wood paneling common in some rooms. |
Paint with high-end wallpaper in bathrooms/kitchens. Wallpaper borders as accents is normal. Natural hardwood "judges" type paneling common in some rooms. |
|
Molding |
Minimal moldings. |
Painted or stained, chair railing or crown molding in one or two rooms. |
Painted or stained (which can be slightly oversized), chair railing or crown molding in several rooms. |
Usually oversized, painted or stained with highest-quality multi-coat. Multi-piece chair rail, crown molding, and baseboards common. |
|
Extras |
None/minimal |
None/minimal |
Some built-in bookcases, wet-bars, etc. in rooms other than kitchens and bathrooms. |
Columns, built-in bookcases, wet-bars, or other cabinetry in rooms other than kitchens and bathrooms. Curved or ornate staircases. Door/window casings are fluted or reeded with use of rosettes and plinth blocking. |
|
Doors |
Hollow-core legacy-style Masonite or lauan. |
Hollow core colonist style Masonite. |
Hollow-core colonist style Masonite to stained birch door. |
Typically solid 6 or 8 panel. |
|
Ceilings |
Standard 8' ceilings. |
Vaulted ceilings in some areas. |
Vaulted or trey ceilings common with possibility of exposed structural or decorative wood beams. |
Vaulted or trey ceilings common as well as 9-12' ceilings throughout with possibility of exposed structural or decorative wood beams (depending on style). |
Cabinets/Fixtures
|
Item |
Economy |
Standard |
Above Average |
Premium |
|
Cabinets |
Solid pine or other soft wood to pre-fab modular box style from particle board with "photo finish" veneer. |
Solid pine or other soft wood to pre-fab modular box style from particle board boxes with hardwood frames and door fronts. |
Solid pine or other soft wood to pre-fab modular box style from particle board boxes with hardwood frames and door fronts. |
Solid hardwood to pre-fab modular box style made from solid hardwood and hardwood veneers. |
|
Cabinet Door Fronts |
Standard. |
Could have flat recessed panel style. |
Often raised panel door and could be cathedral style or have glass panes. |
Raised panel doors, could be cathedral style or have leaded or beveled glass. |
|
Countertops |
Flat-laid or post-formed laminate style. |
Flat-laid or post-formed laminate style, possible hardwood edging installed. |
High grade, flat-laid or post-formed laminate style top with hardwood edging installed. Solid surface material or ceramic tile common. |
Highest quality solid-surface material with decorative edging, or solid natural marble or granite. |
|
Bathroom Vanities |
N/A |
N/A |
Bathroom vanity tops cultured marble with integrated sink bowl. |
Bathroom vanity tops can be cultured or natural marble with an integrated sink bowl. |
|
Bathtubs |
Bathtubs are cast iron with ceramic tile surround or one-piece fiberglass tub and surround. |
Bathtubs are cast iron with ceramic tile surround or one-piece fiberglass tub and surround. |
Often cast iron with ceramic tile or cultured marble surround, possibly a jetted tub and/or separate shower unit. Often have glass doors installed. |
Usually cast iron with a cultured or natural marble tile surround. Jetted and/or oversized "garden" type tubs, as well as large walk-in shower areas surrounded by cultured or natural marble common. All bathtubs and showers have high quality glass door installed. |
|
Faucets |
Faucets are inexpensive chrome-plated style. |
Faucets are medium grade chrome plated or polished brass style. |
Faucets typically a higher-end chrome-plated or polished-brass style with decorative handles. |
Faucets are highest quality chrome, polished brass, or even gold plated and commonly have decorative handles. |
Flooring
|
Item |
Economy |
Standard |
Above Average |
Premium |
|
Floors |
Low end "economy" or "builders grade" carpet and sheet vinyl. |
Varied (based on decor), limited to medium-grade carpet and sheet vinyl with ceramic tile, hardwood, or laminate flooring in limited areas. |
Varied (based on decor) usually a mixture of high-quality carpet and sheet vinyl with some ceramic tile, hardwood, and/or laminate style flooring. |
Varied (based on decor) but will usually be a mixture of very high end carpet (i.e., wool), ceramic tile, imported marble or slate, and select hardwood. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jim C
New Member
Posts:12
|
| 02 May 2009 10:31 AM |
|
Depending on the house the ICF's could be half that without deducting the cost of the frame wall. The builder isn't familiar with ICF cost and is trying to scare you away from something out of his comfort zone. |
|
|
|
|
Dreamn2build
New Member
Posts:11
|
| 02 May 2009 10:59 AM |
|
Thats kind of what we were thinking. After looking at several different floorplans, my wife and I have chosen one we like. But from the things I've read, it seems far from a passive design. But I've been wrong before.
Basically what we're shooting for is trying to build next spring (about May '10). We are trying to decide what the best plan is financially. We plan to be here (in Clarksville) for about another six years at a minimum. But don't want to have a house built that we'll have trouble getting our money back out of.
It anyone is interested the plan we're looking at is here; http://www.designbasics.com/plan/plan.asp?PlanNo=42027AMV |
|
|
|
|
Dreamn2build
New Member
Posts:11
|
| 02 May 2009 01:48 PM |
|
Another question...If a set of plans for a home are designed around a specific manufacturer, can you still a different ICF? |
|
|
|
|
Jim C
New Member
Posts:12
|
| 02 May 2009 02:57 PM |
|
The main issue will be the wall thickness if you have any critical dimensions based off the ICF wall |
|
|
|
|
icfblocks
Basic Member
Posts:202
|
| 02 May 2009 05:26 PM |
|
There are so many things that add up to be the sq. ft. cost of a home that have nothing to do with the exterior wall cost that sq. ft. cost becomes the wrong measurement of wrong way to define the total cost of a house built using ICF. For instance a "gourmet kitchen that costs $50,000.00 in a 1,200 sq. ft. house will completely change the sq. ft. cost.
Again, corners, windows and door size and no. of openings, wall heights, architectural embellishments, roof design, plate heights will and overall size will all have a direct impact on the cost of the ICF walls.
|
|
| Thanks,<br>Tom<br>www.advbuildingtech.com |
|
|
Hoowood
New Member
Posts:78
|
| 03 May 2009 02:27 AM |
|
Posted By Dreamn2build on 05/02/2009 1:48 PM
Another question...If a set of plans for a home are designed around a specific manufacturer, can you still a different ICF? Hello Dream2build Off c ourse it is possible to take one plan and change it to the possible products that may be choosen. We have a computer program that can read any CAD version of plan, changes it form inch and feet into centimeters and meters. Than we add the specific product sizes and the program will change to measures according the material of ICF used. Once finished the mathematical part of this plan we can retransfere it in inch & feet. But any plan that spells out inch and feet we can manually figure out numbers. Usually anybody can look at www.houseplans.com or similar providers, take the plan number and we would create quickly a rough cost sheet for this home. The final decision always is which extras the homeowner wants. I had a home owner that changed his mind when we finished the first floor. Switching from 8' to 10'. I told him that besides the amount of ICF blocks and concrete he must change his window sizes. It cost him an extra 40.000 as windows and doors where not available from standard sizes. The better the homeowner understands his plan the easier it is to build what he wants. Hoowood |
|
|
|
|
ICFARXX
New Member
Posts:40
|
| 06 May 2009 04:37 PM |
|
Glad to see you are looking at Solar and an ICF construction.
I just finished building a green home in Florence Alabama. It was a very nice project. We used Geo Thermal. Of course ICF walls, grey water system, bamboo flooring, LED lighting, solar, no VOC paints and stains, soy base spray foam and many more features. Good luck to you and if you have any questions please feel free to contact me.
I am also a ICF installer. I travel all over the nation doing installs.
Shannon Phifer
256-412-4653 |
|
|
|
|