DaveS
New Member
Posts:87
 |
| 02 Sep 2009 08:41 AM |
|
I am convinced the combination of ICF walls with a SIPs roof is the best overall method of building Green in Florida. It doesn't make since to me to add a stick roof to ICF walls. It seems the SIPs should be the less expensive method, but it's not. I don't mind a slight increase in price; but all indications so far are that the SIPs roof is going to be twice as expensive as a standard roof. SIPs panels are mass produced, precut to fit exactly, install in days vs weeks for the alternative, and a SIPs roof will have very little waste material for the landfill.
We may have to settle for ICF with a standard roof because of the price point and it frustrates us that we hear so much about how it doesn't cost that much more to go Green, but when it comes right down to it, in this case, IT DOES. (please excuse the rant)
The SIPs roof will give us beautiful cathedral ceilings and if we lose them to a standard roof we will loose the look we are looking for, not to mention, it is a more environmentally friendly product.
Are all SIPs manufactures selling at the same price? Is anyone aware of SIPs manufactures offing a promotional discount?
DaveS |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Farmboy
Basic Member
Posts:356
|
| 02 Sep 2009 09:59 AM |
|
We too looked at a SIP roof but it was cost prohibitive. However, don't lose hope for a cathedral ceiling. Trusses can be designed to create a variety of ceiling patterns. Take a look at a truss maker's website to see the configurations available. Dave |
|
|
|
|
mac31313
New Member
Posts:20
|
| 02 Sep 2009 10:24 AM |
|
dave,
have you considered a truss roof with spray foam.....mine is cathedral in main part of the house.....foam glues all together and creates an air tight seal
also gives you actic/crawl space for electrical and ac ducts (inside cooled air space)
mac |
|
|
|
|
DaveS
New Member
Posts:87
|
| 02 Sep 2009 05:40 PM |
|
Posted By mac31313 on 09/02/2009 10:24 AM
dave,
have you considered a truss roof with spray foam.....mine is cathedral in main part of the house.....foam glues all together and creates an air tight seal
also gives you actic/crawl space for electrical and ac ducts (inside cooled air space)
mac Looks like we have ended up on the same road. Yes, that is our fall back position. There is a Soy based spray foam we are looking at. |
|
|
|
|
DaveS
New Member
Posts:87
|
| 02 Sep 2009 05:46 PM |
|
Posted By mac31313 on 09/02/2009 10:24 AM
dave,
have you considered a truss roof with spray foam.....mine is cathedral in main part of the house.....foam glues all together and creates an air tight seal
also gives you actic/crawl space for electrical and ac ducts (inside cooled air space)
mac Hey Mac, That is where we will end up if we can't afford SIPs. It just bugs me that SIPs is so expensive, knowing that in a year or so, it will probibly be the same or less money. |
|
|
|
|
dmaceld
Veteran Member
Posts:1465
|
| 02 Sep 2009 08:00 PM |
|
Posted By DaveS on 09/02/2009 5:46 PM
That is where we will end up if we can't afford SIPs. It just bugs me that SIPs is so expensive, knowing that in a year or so, it will probibly be the same or less money. Don't count on it. I looked at SIPs for floors when I was in the early stage of designing my house almost 3 years ago. The local SIP manufacturer owned up to the fact that in long horizontal spans like floors and roofs, SIPs cannot compete with conventional joist and subfloor designs. Material cost of SIPs is higher than even ICF. Savings are realized on the total scope of the project because of the ease and labor savings of the installation process.
|
|
| Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help! |
|
|
DaveS
New Member
Posts:87
|
| 03 Sep 2009 06:53 AM |
|
Posted By dmaceld on 09/02/2009 8:00 PM
Posted By DaveS on 09/02/2009 5:46 PM
That is where we will end up if we can't afford SIPs. It just bugs me that SIPs is so expensive, knowing that in a year or so, it will probibly be the same or less money. [/quote]Don't count on it. I looked at SIPs for floors when I was in the early stage of designing my house almost 3 years ago. The local SIP manufacturer owned up to the fact that in long horizontal spans like floors and roofs, SIPs cannot compete with conventional joist and subfloor designs.
Material cost of SIPs is higher than even ICF. Savings are realized on the total scope of the project because of the ease and labor savings of the installation process.
You may be right and time will tell.
My thinking is once SIPs penetrates the market enough that production runs will allow pricing to be more competitive. Of course there will also need to be some new technology that will start to erode their market share if they don't become more price competitive. As far as SIPs being more expensive than ICF; ICF is in the same boat. Nether should be as expensive as they are. Time will tell, but history dictates that prices fall as market share increases and competition applies a little incentive.
Our problem is we are on the leading edge of the Green Revolution and thus we have to sacrifice dollars in order to pave the way for those that follow. I don't know about you, but my name isn't Ed Bagley (Living with Ed) and I don't have his kind of money. Going Green should be within reach of all folks who want to save the planet, save energy and live in a cleaner environment.
It is up to manufactures of Green products to offer some sort of incentive to us pioneers. But no, most are just interested in lining their pockets. (there I go again, ranting; sorry; my bad)
|
|
|
|
|
insuldeckflorida
Basic Member
Posts:158
|
| 04 Sep 2009 07:16 AM |
|
as you are in florida why not consider a solid vaulted concrete roof? hurricane proof, termite proof, quiet, very efficient and virtually maintenance free. and you will have cathedral ceilings below. thats what they have beeen using in many caribbean countried for years. we can do a 3 to 4/12 pitch roof with a rough concrete finish and up to 24" overhangs for about 15.00 sf. a finished product with stucco stepped "bermuda look" including paint for about 17.00 sf. then negotiate with your insurance broker for better rates for windstorm coverage. [email protected][email protected] |
|
|
|
|
Aeonian Brick
New Member
Posts:5
|
| 04 Sep 2009 08:29 AM |
|
Dave-
You are absolutely correct. Check out Aeonian Brick Homes. Our homes withstand hurricane force winds up to 240 mph and they use a concrete roof system that can withstand 300 mph winds, all with cathedral ceilings, and their homes are LEED certified at the platinum level. Click here to check out our website to learn more and to view our test results.
-Tom |
|
|
|
|
DaveS
New Member
Posts:87
|
| 04 Sep 2009 09:02 AM |
|
Posted By insuldeckflorida on 09/04/2009 7:16 AM as you are in florida why not consider a solid vaulted concrete roof? hurricane proof, termite proof, quiet, very efficient and virtually maintenance free. and you will have cathedral ceilings below. thats what they have beeen using in many caribbean countried for years. we can do a 3 to 4/12 pitch roof with a rough concrete finish and up to 24" overhangs for about 15.00 sf. a finished product with stucco stepped "bermuda look" including paint for about 17.00 sf. then negotiate with your insurance broker for better rates for windstorm coverage. [email protected][email protected]We will be getting quotes for SIPs and a standard truss roof next week, and I will compare that pricing to your 17 per. sf. Our roof is very complex, will incorporate rainwater harvesting and has a copula that may effect your price upward as well.
I would love to have a concrete roof for all the reasons you mentioned, but instinct tells me it's cost prohibitive.
|
|
|
|
|
DallasBill
New Member
Posts:84
|
|
DaveS
New Member
Posts:87
|
| 11 Sep 2009 10:48 AM |
|
Posted By DallasBill on 09/11/2009 10:36 AM ICF home, 4 yrs old, with conventional roof (metal covered), spray foam insulation (Sealection500). Cathedral (vaulted) ceiling link.Looks nice, what I can see of it. Do you have images of the outside? |
|
|
|
|
DallasBill
New Member
Posts:84
|
|
DaveS
New Member
Posts:87
|
| 11 Sep 2009 11:07 AM |
|
LOL, I can see you're a man of action and of few words. Beautiful home and yes that the effect we are shooting for inside. I will post some images here when we get er done. But that is probibly at least a year away. Thanks, DaveS |
|
|
|
|
DallasBill
New Member
Posts:84
|
| 11 Sep 2009 03:22 PM |
|
By the way, we had average temps of 96F in August. On a 98F day, the measured temp at the interior roof beam is 79F at 5:00PM! The floor measures 76F and the ICF walls at 10 ft measure 77F. The t-stat set point is 77F and 46% humidity. The metal roof outside at the same time, in the east-side shade, measures 101F. We have 3150 sq ft in 1.5 stories and two 3-ton systems -- one for each end because running duct was impossible w/ the vaulted ceiling in the middle. In August we burned 1,600 KWH of electricity -- about half of any house around us 500-800 sq ft smaller. Good luck. Words off...  |
|
|
|
|
DaveS
New Member
Posts:87
|
| 11 Sep 2009 04:24 PM |
|
Now, those are the numbers I'm looking for.  |
|
|
|
|
rykertest
Basic Member
Posts:202
|
| 11 Sep 2009 08:30 PM |
|
sips or even better yet a concrete roof would be great, but yes very cost prohibitive. I think you can build a very strong wooden roof for little cost increase if you take your time and have it done RIGHT. Things like using construction adhesive for the decking, hurricane ties of course, using larger diameter wood, hip roof over gabled, and HAND nailing it as opposed to nail guns will make for a very strong roof. it's not maybe hurricane proof, but it can be much stronger than whats typically done today. |
|
|
|
|
dmaceld
Veteran Member
Posts:1465
|
| 12 Sep 2009 12:12 AM |
|
Posted By rykertest on 09/11/2009 8:30 PM
Things like using construction adhesive for the decking, hurricane ties of course, using larger diameter wood, hip roof over gabled, and HAND nailing it as opposed to nail guns will make for a very strong roof. Simpson, I think it is, a few years ago introduced to the market 'hurricane nails.' They resist pull out much better than standard nails. A Google search for hurricane nails should find the info about them.
|
|
| Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help! |
|
|
cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
|
|
DaveS
New Member
Posts:87
|
| 12 Sep 2009 08:01 AM |
|
The home is absolutely beautiful. How many Square Ft.? The roof is not as complex as ours will be, though very attractive and better suited for SIPs. Can you share with us the final cost of the project or at least the costs of the SIPs portion. We are located in North Central Florida, between Gainesville and Melrose.
DaveS |
|
|
|
|