Need a recommendation for the best fastener to attach hardiboard to nudura (or similar ICF with recessed nailer). Yes, I tried the search function and found discussions but no real answers. My Nudura rep. doesn't know. Hardiboard site has no specific answers, and neither does the nudura site. Does anyone out there really know?? (sorry getting frustrated)

Greg -- Send me a PM or go to the futurestone website and contact me. Regards

Posted By Gregw on 13 Aug 2012 07:02 PM
Need a recommendation for the best fastener to attach hardiboard to nudura (or similar ICF with recessed nailer). Yes, I tried the search function and found discussions but no real answers. My Nudura rep. doesn't know. Hardiboard site has no specific answers, and neither does the nudura site. Does anyone out there really know?? (sorry getting frustrated)

Did you find these discussions? The first three discuss fastening fiber cement siding. The last one covers some other issues. Most guys recommend screws. I used spiral nails with a nailer as discussed in the topics below. The problem is spiral coil nails may not exist any more. If you go with screws some company, I don't remember who, has screws available on strip designed to be driven with a nail gun. You might check out that option.

Sorry these aren't links you can just click on. This forum s/w doesn't offer a direct approach to creating links.

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/79309/afv/topic/afpgj/1/Default.aspx#85482

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/41169/afv/topic/afpgj/2/Default.aspx#57902

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/56941/afv/topic/afpgj/1/Default.aspx#41199

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/53265/afv/topic/afpgj/2/Default.aspx#38306

Posted By dmaceld on 13 Aug 2012 10:54 PM

Posted By Gregw on 13 Aug 2012 07:02 PM
Need a recommendation for the best fastener to attach hardiboard to nudura (or similar ICF with recessed nailer). Yes, I tried the search function and found discussions but no real answers. My Nudura rep. doesn't know. Hardiboard site has no specific answers, and neither does the nudura site. Does anyone out there really know?? (sorry getting frustrated)

Did you find these discussions? The first three discuss fastening fiber cement siding. The last one covers some other issues. Most guys recommend screws. I used spiral nails with a nailer as discussed in the topics below. The problem is spiral coil nails may not exist any more. If you go with screws some company, I don't remember who, has screws available on strip designed to be driven with a nail gun. You might check out that option.

Sorry these aren't links you can just click on. This forum s/w doesn't offer a direct approach to creating links.

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/79309/afv/topic/afpgj/1/Default.aspx#85482

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/41169/afv/topic/afpgj/2/Default.aspx#57902

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/56941/afv/topic/afpgj/1/Default.aspx#41199

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/53265/afv/topic/afpgj/2/Default.aspx#38306

Yes I found these discussions and I found where you have posted this before and there is no answer there.

Posted By TexasICF on 13 Aug 2012 09:02 PM
Greg -- Send me a PM or go to the futurestone website and contact me. Regards

Checked the futurestone site and it has the same information as the Nudura site, which is to say is no information. What's the deal, why the need for a PM, why not just say something like: use the XYZ screw at X inches OC and you will have guarenteed sucess. What is the mystery?

Grabber makes the cement board siding screws, very expensive but also do the job

They have a 1 5/8" that will work fine

Posted By Gregw on 13 Aug 2012 11:06 PM
What's the deal, why the need for a PM, why not just say something like: use the XYZ screw at X inches OC and you will have guarenteed sucess. What is the mystery?

Do you suppose it might be because there is no consensus what the one best answer is? Different builders have different preferences. Many options work equally well. Several factors play into what a particular builder will use, fastener availability, single screw driving vs. gun driving, nails vs. screws, tools one already owns, hammer vs. nail gun, and so on.

Your question is similar to which pickup truck works best to haul lumber, a Toyota, Chevy, Ford, Nissan, Dodge, or whatever. Many options provide equal end results.

You need to look at the options available and based on your own preferences and tools decide which fastener will work best for you.

My chosen method worked great for me. It undoubtedly would work great for someone else. Contrary to your response above it is an answer, maybe just not the answer that will work best for you.

Posted By dmaceld on 14 Aug 2012 02:52 AM

Posted By Gregw on 13 Aug 2012 11:06 PM
What's the deal, why the need for a PM, why not just say something like: use the XYZ screw at X inches OC and you will have guarenteed sucess. What is the mystery?

Do you suppose it might be because there is no consensus what the one best answer is? Different builders have different preferences. Many options work equally well. Several factors play into what a particular builder will use, fastener availability, single screw driving vs. gun driving, nails vs. screws, tools one already owns, hammer vs. nail gun, and so on.

Your question is similar to which pickup truck works best to haul lumber, a Toyota, Chevy, Ford, Nissan, Dodge, or whatever. Many options provide equal end results.

You need to look at the options available and based on your own preferences and tools decide which fastener will work best for you.

My chosen method worked great for me. It undoubtedly would work great for someone else. Contrary to your response above it is an answer, maybe just not the answer that will work best for you.

I know for a fact that BuildBlock does not recommend using any fasteners from an air gun. They are worried that the initial violent impact of the fastener could result in failure of the reinforced strips.

I liked a Buildex screw with an expanded head with ribs for better seating in the fiber cement. It was a #9 "Rock-On" type with a self-drilling point and "Clima-coat coating. I had a version with sharp points and they were fine when drilling to wood, but the points were hard to start into the plastic anchor ties.

Posted By NorthEastICFs on 16 Aug 2012 04:00 PM
I know for a fact that BuildBlock does not recommend using any fasteners from an air gun. They are worried that the initial violent impact of the fastener could result in failure of the reinforced strips.

Please provide a reference to substantiate your "fact".

The Buildblock installation manual does not contain the phrase "nail gun" nor the word "nailer". The only discussion about siding in the BB manual is the following, "Siding of all types can attach directly to the wall via the ties on 6″ OC without a vapor barrier." The only discussion about webs and nails in the manual is the following, "You can use ring shank nails for speed but BuildBlock recommends you use screws for best results."

In fact, if you have done much nailing with a nail gun and hammer you will have to admit that nails driven into wood with a nail gun are much less likely to split the wood than those driven by hand. I see no technical reason why the same would not be true for the plastic ties.

We found that plastic ties would more likely shatter when cold, but "could" be nailed to when it was warmer. We were using ARXX. The contractor would have liked to use the nail gun, but he found the results were just too erratic.

Posted By dmaceld on 17 Aug 2012 01:09 AM

Posted By NorthEastICFs on 16 Aug 2012 04:00 PM
I know for a fact that BuildBlock does not recommend using any fasteners from an air gun. They are worried that the initial violent impact of the fastener could result in failure of the reinforced strips.

Please provide a reference to substantiate your "fact".

The Buildblock installation manual does not contain the phrase "nail gun" nor the word "nailer". The only discussion about siding in the BB manual is the following, "Siding of all types can attach directly to the wall via the ties on 6″ OC without a vapor barrier." The only discussion about webs and nails in the manual is the following, "You can use ring shank nails for speed but BuildBlock recommends you use screws for best results."

In fact, if you have done much nailing with a nail gun and hammer you will have to admit that nails driven into wood with a nail gun are much less likely to split the wood than those driven by hand. I see no technical reason why the same would not be true for the plastic ties.

Straight from Mike Garrett's mouth at Certified Builder Training, CEO of BuildBlock. BuildBlock only recommends using screws as fasteners. Check out section 4.5 and table 2 http://www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files/ICC-ES/ESR-1911.pdf http://www.buildblock.com/technical/PDFs/Windlock-rpt05001.pdf

I see no technical reason why the same would not be true for the plastic ties.

Except that plastic and wood are two very different materials.

I used the typical gray epoxy coated "grip rite" screws from lowe's. I tried deck screws, but the threads dont go all the way to the head, so once you seat the screw it might end up with the smooth portion of the shank in the web. I also found that it's best to pilot drill each hole, then countersink with a 3/8 drill bit to hide the head. It's worth investing in a drill doctor since you'll need to sharpen bits frequently. Screws can pull the siding up ridiculously tight. I run them in with my cordless, then either back them off or snug them up with a screwdriver.

Nudura recommends screws as well. You might want to review siding manufacturers warranty as some building officials will look at that.

Getting closer to an answer. Talked to Scott Carpenter at Nudura and they reccomend a Pro-twist CB158, cement boart 1 5/8". Now I'm trying to get the spacing. It's like pulling teeth to get the straight sh*t answers out of anybody. WTF is the mystery all about??????????

Looks like the Durock screw is the same design.

Now I'm trying to get the spacing.

I think spacing might be dependent on wind issues.

I'm sure you are right, but the reality is that any location can get 60-80 mph winds in a strong thunderstorm and there are only a few choices available. The nailers are 8" OC on the Nudura forms, so what do you bet it's 16" or 24"  oc for screws?? Can't imagine needing screws at 8" oc.

It also depends on what the exposure of the planks is.

ETA: You need the basic wind speed for building code in your county, the wind exposure (B, C or D) and the plank size

Posted By Gregw on 19 Aug 2012 11:31 PM
I'm sure you are right, but the reality is that any location can get 60-80 mph winds in a strong thunderstorm and there are only a few choices available. The nailers are 8" OC on the Nudura forms, so what do you bet it's 16" or 24"  oc for screws?? Can't imagine needing screws at 8" oc.

I would guesstimate that 16" would be most widely used but 8" OC in areas like OK, CO and other high-wind zones. If you are DIY, then I would go 8" OC, if you are paying for labor and on a budget, go 16" OC.

In the end, your IRC for your area will dictate spacing.