I am building in Englewood TN. Used amvic. If you want to see the house let me know. All ICF work is done.

M & K,
   Is the ICF work being contracted out or are you Doing It Yourself (DIY)?  Then follow the advice from ICF Constr'n and Paul Stevens.

   Here's an extensive ICF comparison chart: http://www.icfmag.com/documents/ICF_COMP_CHART/08_ind_comp_chart.pdf

Our story.  We will erect the ICF walls of our upcoming home ourselves and will use Logix for several reasons: 
     1.  Close to us.  Block is made just about 40 miles from our home site.
     2.  Foam is 2-3/4" thick which gives us a higher R-value, total of 5.5" of foam.
     3.  Concrete is 6.25" thick, so a bit more strength.  Think Kansas tornados.
     4.  I've seen several homes built with it during the construction phase and it is sturdy.
     5.  Attended distributor training and have helped a friend using it for his country home.
     6.  Have good working relationship with the distributor and they can provide all the bracing, accessories and tech support we will need.

Other Block We Considered. 
  Eco-Block (2.5" foam, 6" concrete).   Helped stack some block at a residence.  Only problem for me is that you have to assemble the block on site.  Advantage is that the block ships easier, but you need to ensure the ties are snapped in correctly and you have sufficient quantity. 

Amvic.  Seems to be a well received block and available locally.

Buildblock.  Heard good comments about it.  Used on an Extreme Home Makeover project.

IF you are DIY, might check out Fox Block (2-5/8" foam, 6" concrete).  They are reasonably priced and are made and sold out of Omaha.  I think the first truckload load is shipped free or used to be.      

Reward Block (2.5" foam, 6" concrete).  My wife and I helped construct the foundation and exterior walls for a home in Greensburg earlier this year.  They used Reward Block which seemed fairly forgiving given that no one had much experience with ICF at all.  Because we had attended the one day course a week or two before made us the "experts", but we got it done.  Reward block is reversible which makes stacking a bit less complex.  Just grab any corner block and use it.  With Logix we will have to make sure we have it right side up.

Hope this might help you decide.  Good luck,  Dave

The real question is are you the installer?

ALL the blocks in the right hand will work. (yes ,I said that)

All the blocks in new hands will have some problems.

You only get 1 chance to get your home right so pick your help , and let them pick the block.

This is true all over the icf product lines ,all can be put up wrong and have problems. 
 They also in the hands of an experienced user can look and work just fine.
So are you the installer?

If we decide to go with an installer I agree it would be best to:

1. Choose someone with experience.
2. Let the installer choose the block
3. Talk with customers
4. Use an architech/Engr with ICF experience

After talking with you guys it seems like ICF's are kinda like purchasing a car. Today there are many good MFG's and they all have a decent product. But if I were to make one myself or have one made. I would want someone with experience, support and provide training with an onsite Rep.
I feel more comfortable with a block that has strips every 6" Vs every 8". also the thicker foam is good if the density is there. I have not seen density over 1.5
I want to find some training. I think this will convince me whether to do it myself or hire someone.
I have come down to 3 block manufactures Logix, Reward and Amvic.
Dave , thanks for the comparison chart. Wow! that is a great tool.
Paul, ICFman, Wes, TLC-ICF, farmboy, Raider Bill, Woulfcc & ICF Construction, I just want to say thanks! I feel like I have gotten some good unbiased info. Kinda of like the peace of mind you get from talking to a "friend" in the business.
Now I need to find a training class in this part of the country.

Marc & Kemella
Athens, Tn

There seem to be a lot of individuals in the dark when it comes to IntegraSpec ICF. I would like to shed some light on this unique ICF Wallsystem.

In my opinion, after having used IntegraSpec exclusively for five years in custom home construction, it is the most versatile and user friendly ICF on the market today. It is an independant panel system which makes meeting specific wall height requirements and constructing RSO's a breeze. IntegraSpec is specified to have a 10' pour height as apposed to the 3' to 4' pour heights of other ICF's. The tallest pour I have done is 14' with a 6" concrete core cavity in one shot and one pass around the house. This system is completely flippable and reversible which makes installation quick and easy, there is no up or down, no right or left. There is absolutely no form compaction and no form lift, which means no gluing forms together, no tying them down, and no guessing, exact measurments for RSO's can be used. IntegraSpec has anti-compaction channels that negate form compaction and the webs lock together which in turn negates form lift. In combination, the anti-compaction channels and inter-locking webs create a spine throughout the wallsystem subsequently making the forms easier to plum and straighten during pours.
The furring strips are every 8" on center and are 1 5/8 wide, these inserts are also made out of HIPS plastic and not polypropolene, which provides a better mechanical bond with the EPS, a pull test of 156 pounds per sq. inch and results in superior strength and taller pour heights.
IntegraSpec has a patented H-clip which allows it to accomplish something that no other ICF's in the industry can obtain. This H-clip allows you to gang together multiple webs to achieve any concrete core thickness. The thickest wall I have poured was 24 inches and 8 ft tall, I was able to pour this wall in one shot, I was apprehensive at first, but couldn't believe the results.
As well, IntegraSpec's IntegraBuck system is the insulated solution to window insulation and bucking around your RSO's. It is cheaper per lineal foot than PT wood, it insulates and has a furring strip within it to provide for window installation and jamb extensions. As well, in using this bucking system the wallsystem is a one material substrate for stucco applications.
Finally, IntegraSpec has dovetail grooves on the inside face of their panels which creates a mechanical bond with the concrete as it cures and contracts. This in turn provides a superior surface for stucco or EIFs applications which awards IntegraSpec and Nudura (which have dovetails as well) extended warranties from many of the EIFs manufacturers.
When using ICF's I always look at the cost of the blocks, IntegraSpec is not among the cheapest but in looking at how this ICF performs and the versatility of the product I consider these forms to be priceless. Installed cost is more important in the end, and with a flippable and reversible system that pours 10 ft, I save a lot of money in the installation process. It is very easy to have a good nights sleep when you feel confident and comfortable with the buidling system that you are using.
Check out www.integraspec.com, it is quite an informative site with slideshows of feature projects and product brochures.

I hope this helps,

Buddy Newberry,

On average I have been pouring around 100 yd. of concrete a week for about 20 + years.

Thats in a lot of different forms, not just icfs but wood , pans, decks what ever.

 I work commercial construction mostly and thats what I do for a living.

I say this not to beat my chest but to let you know where my opinion is based from.
Do you actual work with the concrete or sell stuff?
 I am not selling any thing here And I am not looking for work.

 I love icfs they are so easy on the crew that is doing the build.
Every man in the field I have put icfs in their hands like the ease of the stacking and see how this is a real assume way to build.
All icfs.
Hands down are a better way to build.
I have used a lot of blocks and am always willing to work with a icf any one of them.

The icf form that I will use hands down over any one out on the market is integraspeck.
If you look at the whole build it just works faster and cheaper the any other form out their.
I don't get into bashing any one here, keep  building with icfs they are the way to go.
I don't make a dime on any icf here not in the last year any way.
I just work with them.
 So what I heard from Buddy was PIN ON!
I you think just anyone of the street can just stack and pour icfs and get it right all the time well
 Good luck to you!
 This is not to say that a hand man is not able to use icfs ( they can)
Just know that sometimes people don't know what they don't know.
In concrete that is dangeres.....things do go bad, can you fix it. Do you know how?
Stop all the stack and pour stuff , put the block in the hands of the pros out in the feild.

 

Your perception on the HIPS plastic used in IntegraSpec is inaccurate.  HIPS used in IntegraSpec is made of 100% repro. 

For people wandering what HIPS means, here it is H= High, I= Impact, P= Poly, S= Styrene.

What buddy means, IntegraSpec use HIPS in their form because it is highly compatible with the EPS used for the panels fusing both materials together when being mold which make a stronger form.

Greenblock use to have the same HIPS plastic a while back making it to be a strong form as well.  I know because we use to install it in the 90’s

As for the concrete free fall, that is another myth.  See the attached document.  Since we started using Greenblock & now IntegraSpec, we always filled our walls straight up.  By filling them, the concrete is always flowing down & not dropping down.

Think about it, if you go around in lift, there is at least 2 to 3 lift.  If you don’t pay attention, your are increasing the risk of cold joints between the lifts which create a weakness in the wall & on top of that creating possible water seepage point in the walls.  Water is lazy & it will take the easiest route.   Now if you have a water problem in your ICF walls, how do you find the problem spot????

EMM,

I read the attachment about the Free Fall of Concrete.  Very interesting.  Of course, this is opposite of what I was taught in school many years ago.  Hopefully, I am not too old to change my thinking about how concrete behaves.

When you say you always fill the walls straight up, do you mean that most of the concrete is placed at one point.  If so, do you have to add more bracing to counteract the fluid pressures at that point?  Do you use  superplasticizers that make the concrete more fluid?  Please elaborate.

Alton,

In our area the concrete plants have a specialized ICF mix which includes a type 2 superplastisizer & pea stone.  The mix usually arrives on site at a 6 to 7” slump which flow nicely in the walls.  It gives us plenty of time to pour & align our walls.   Of course I move around while filling up the walls in one pass.

Believe it or not, since 1992, I can truly count on one hand the number of blow outs that I had in 16 years in ICF contracting.  The worst part is, it was due to stupidity or trials/testing.  The biggest advantage in using HIPS plastic, it gives you time to react do to the fusion between the two materials (HIPS/ties & EPS panels).  I.e. if you see the form buldge while pouring you have time to move the pump without getting an actual blow out.

Aaron,

In regards to EMM's post and the attached article, this is a document I am quite familiar with and am very happy to see posted. As mentioned in a post before when pouring heights that are above the specified recommendations it is important that you are using a high-end ICF that you trust and feel comfortable with. The addition of more bracing is not required and additional vibration would be left up to the installer. This technique of pouring the walls full, eliminates cold joints and ensures a monolithic wall structure. The flowing of the concrete throughout the forms provides for better concrete consolidation, but this is not to say vibration is not needed or should be lessened. However, if your concrete has the right amount of additives and the slump is 6" or 7" you could choose to only vibrate in tight spots. This is not something I have attempted yet simply because I bought the vibrator...It hasn't failed me and I'm going to use it. 

This way of pouring saves time and money in having the pump truck on site for two hours not five, and from what I have experienced it yields professional results with the elimination of added complications when pouring in lifts as EMM has pointed out.

EMM is exactly right in referring to my reference about HIPS plastic, I meant to say that the fusion of the HIPS with the Type 2 EPS creates a stronger mechanical bond between the two materials resulting in a strong form, which is one reason why I trust IntegraSpec. I trust that if there is weakness within the forms due to an installation error I will be able to recognize this point of weakness before a blow out and avoid it until the necessary strapping is applied. As well, I was unaware that HIPS was 100% repro, that is good to know.
 
Buddy Newberry,

lkazanov2,

Doesn’t matter which ICF system you select.  Knock down or pre-assemble.  What is very important is for you do your homework & choose the best dealer/rep that will give you the best customer support possible.  Class room course simply doesn’t cut it out.  You need to be trained on site as every site are different.  Anybody without pouring experience should NOT be left pouring a job by themselves no matter which ICF forms used.

Renangle,

If I am not mistaking the pull out test is perform on the fastening strip by inserting anchors (i.e. screws & then pulling them out) & not the overall forms strength.  Obviously we are both bias & feel confident with our choice of ICF brand with very similar end result.

Wow, what great info.

I know we tend to drift away from the original question, but this has helped us realize there are more important things to consider than the type of block. For instance, the installer and support and what has me busting at the seams to learn is the best method for vibrating/pouring the wall. Thanks for elaborating on those areas, it has helped us understand why a installer with experience is the key. 

Marc and Kemella

Posted By BrucePolycrete on 14 Jun 2013 11:05 AM
There are opinions and then there are facts. There is a lot of junk out there passing itself off as a code compliant ICF. You would be amazed to learn that some companies market "ICFs" that do not comply with ICC. Others whose names you might recognize are so inferior that they barely cross the bar. Read more here http://polycreteusa.blogspot.com/

Posted By sailawayrb on 15 Jun 2013 01:21 PM
We suspect that block systems will soon become obsolete and will ultimately be replaced by vertical systems.

Posted By sailawayrb on 17 Jun 2013 07:15 PM
   

Posted By sailawayrb on 18 Jun 2013 07:57 PM


And speaking of construction industry best practices... Only a month after more than an estimated 1,100 Bangladeshi garment workers lost their lives in the collapse of a badly-built and poorly-maintained eight-story building, the new building code has thankfully gone into force. Its rigid practices are already being applied by highly-skilled and properly-trained construction teams laboring in harmony on job-sites all across the sub-continent:

New Pile Driver Requirements Implemented