Steve Andrews
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Posts:334
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| 10/12/2000 8:08 AM |
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What is the best way to reduce the cost of building a house with SIPs? I have invited top SIPs experts from around the country to enter into the discussion of this critical issue. But everyone should feel free to join in with ideas and experiences.
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blazerwolf
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Posts:9
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| 10/12/2000 3:32 PM |
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As a builder using SIP's over the last couple of years, I think the cost of the panels need to be priced to compete with stick framing until such time more builders come around to pushing the product.
I use the product no matter what, but it keeps me from trying to introduce the product to lower income families where a larer buying force exists.
I understand supply and demand very well, and I don't see such a high demand for our product to warrant the high cost of the product.
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Kevin Casey
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Posts:59
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| 10/12/2000 4:53 PM |
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#1 Start with the foundation ! It seams I am always converting stick built plans over to panels, Most plans are not designed to use the panel sizes effectivly. A well thought out foundation that utilizes jumbo panels and takes into consideration the direction of the corner laps in the foundation plan would definitly affect the overall cost of the panel package.
#2 Try to locate mechanicals on interior walls such as plumbing vents, supply and return lines, etc.
#4 In roof systems that utilize structural splines, assemble 2 or more panels together on the ground and lift the entire assembly into place in one lift. The project that we are involved with now we are installing 8'x34' sections of roof with structural splines in one lift. We are averaging 28 panels per 8 hour day or 1940 sq ft of panel a day. This is a crew with very little or no experience with SIP's
#3 In Western N.Y. we are competeing with stickbult shells dollar for dollar right now although I know our labor rates in this area seem to be lower than other areas that we work in.
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teds
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Posts:1
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| 10/12/2000 5:11 PM |
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What Size Crew? That Square footage is impressive as an average.
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ICF509
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Posts:1
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| 10/12/2000 5:28 PM |
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My keys to reducing costs with SIPs . Have a panelized plan. Utilize shop labor ie, have the doors and windows cut out, framed and the panels numbered and splined. Get your own crew. It cost us about 10,000.00 to put together a framing trailer and start our own framing business. It has payed for its self in three jobs. My crew ( 6 man ) can frame a 2600 sq ft two story in 5 days. The roof panels go on in a day and these are 4 x 16 panels and sometimes 4x28 ( with a crane of course). Framing labor has been killing us, we cut the cost in half by having our own crew and sub them out to stick frame builders when we don't have a panel house to build.
With regard to design, utilize the natural lofts and vaults that a panel house gives. Best of luck to you all.
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SIPsmart
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Posts:23
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| 10/12/2000 6:39 PM |
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JT - Those are some impressive numbers for installation. Do you end up with an installed cost per square ft. of panel? That seems like a figure that would help us in estimating and be a way to see what the standard is. And improve on it. I have builder friends in California who claim an installed cost for walls of about $5.50/ sq.ft. and a dollar more for roof. Any comments on that.
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ICF501
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Posts:109
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| 10/13/2000 1:44 AM |
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Panel cost are coming down. Most fabricators will pass on panels "factory direct". We make our profit from planning processes, pre-fabrication and erection profits, just as any other sub-contractor. All things considered, panels cost more than sticks and are approx. 60% faster to erect. Let's see............. higher costs, plus higher quality, true and straight frame, no callbacks, lower labor costs.........Sounds like I could get more for the same dollars, if not less money.
It is hard to put a country wide $ amount on panels as they are not the same across the U.S. I speak from California where an aveage wall panel would cost $3/ft/2 unfabricated up to $5/ft/2 fabricated. Add approx. $1/ft/2 for roof panels. Installation costs approx. $1.60-$2.60/ft/2 floor area or course depending on desing. Framing labor here runs $8/ft2-$20/ft/2 floor space and you still have to buy lumber. Insurance, payroll taxes, qualified labor (or lack of it) compensation insurance, all make a good argument to do the job fast and right the first time. this is truly a great way to reduce costs.
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therm
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Posts:49
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| 10/13/2000 10:28 AM |
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The single best way to bring the cost of panels down is to deliver a finished product to the job site. The most expensive place to do work is in the field. A panel company that can deliver a complete system with all the elements of a house included in the product before it reaches the site will naturally drive the cost down. Panels will never cost the same as 2x4 becuase the clearly offer more. The reason to use panels is they save more than they could ever cost and no other upgrade to a house can offer as much to a homeowner. If your not getting the results out of your panels, maybe you need to try a different panel system. Pat
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therm
Registered Users
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Posts:49
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| 10/13/2000 10:32 AM |
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I would also like to point out the with the right crew and system a builder should average 1500 to 2000 of panel up per day. Pat
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Kevin Casey
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Posts:59
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| 10/13/2000 3:52 PM |
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quote:
What Size Crew?
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ICF501
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Posts:109
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| 10/14/2000 1:39 AM |
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To Kevin Casey
The best roof set I have done was 2200 ft/2 of 6/12 pitch roof in 6 hrs. Crew was 1 crane, 1 set man to hookup to crane, 3 carpenters on the roof.
I have also erected a 48' square home with 8 ft. walls in as little as 1 1/2 hours. We did this with a crew of 15 volunteers who were the owners and their friends. I only supervised and held school. We did this for 2 news channels in Sacramento. We actually had to tear down part of the walls so Channel 3 could video it for their newscast. The roof was a full hip and went on in 8 hrs. with a four man crew and a crane.
Ed Stahl
Sunworks
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uziah
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Posts:1
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| 10/20/2000 5:31 PM |
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Pat is absolutely right about pre-fab panels. We started using sips in 1981. The first job was blank EPS panels that we cut on site. What a mess and it took forever. They are hard to handle and you just can't do as good as in a shop, at least we can't. We then started using EPS panels from a business near St. Louis, MO that pre-cut to our plans, but we were paying for the waste and the wire chases left something to be desired, so electrical contractors would sock it to us. We now use urethane foam pre-cuts from Indiana that are superior in R-value, strength, fire resistance and ease of assembly. The chases are PVC conduit with boxes molded in place, wherever you want them, the splines are non conductive, and the entire package is just that, everything you need - plates, foam sealant tape (no caulk) and Oly screws, to do a great job. I will never go back to stick framing, which is what I did for 14 years. SIPS are all we use on our timber frames and when we frame a panel house, the quality is far better than sticks. No culling studs or twisting studs, sheetrock is easier to install, wiring is a breeze and the walls and roof are flat and incredibly strong.
Jerry Nevins
Woodhenge Timberframes
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