Harv
Registered Users
Posts:5
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| 12/13/2007 8:37 PM |
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We're considering a move to northwest Massachusetts and like the idea of geothermal and or solar heat. Can either be effiective in that climate? It's the coldest and probablly the coudiest part of the area. There is some Southern exposure but there are is a hill and trees that would limit winter sun even if it did clear up. I'm thinking of this for a 4 bay work shop built with ICF's.
John
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Eric Moldenhauer
Registered Users
Posts:20
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| 12/14/2007 11:53 AM |
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| Harv, I have done a bit of searching for a solar potential map for the US. I've seen these maps in years gone by, just can't find them right now. No luck for collectors, just PV...however they may be helpful in determining what your potential can be. I've looked on the NREL & DOE sites as well, and didn't see anything promising. Try a search on "solar potential maps" or similar phrasing. I had millions of links to the searches I ran, pretty tough to sort. If I stumble onto something I'll let you know. Solar heating in your situation (with partial to near fully obstructed sun at your collector location) may not be cost effective. |
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billmh
Registered Users
Posts:37
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| 12/14/2007 5:34 PM |
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| If the trees drop their leaves that may be OK, but if evergreen then, as Eric said, the system will not be cost effective. Also consider passive solar in addition to the others. There are a few books out there that will have the solar days numbers for you, that will also help with the other decisions. |
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maineman
Registered Users
Posts:1
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| 12/14/2007 8:12 PM |
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You should have a solar analysis done-I use Solmetric tool for my solar surveys and it is very accurate. Geothermal works well in almost any climate; talk to the folks at Heatspring Energy:
HeatSpring Energy
501 Cambridge Street
Suite 201
Cambridge, MA 02141
Tel: 617.252.0600
Peter @ thesundepot
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Harv
Registered Users
Posts:5
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| 12/14/2007 9:22 PM |
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Thanks so much for the replies.
Looks like I have a little research to do before we build.
I have decided on a heated slab, and if I could pull it off with solar power, all the beter.
John
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sancti10
Registered Users
Posts:1
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| 01/18/2008 2:11 PM |
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I am located in upstate NY and have been looking into solar heat. I'm looking at Stiebel Eltron products that are packaged, with a company in Vermont. They actually came in under my budget for tanks, panels and pumps. I'm considering going with 2 500 gallon tanks, although that's still up for debate. The folks where I'm shopping have been great in getting me going in the right direction. Here's the link to the products I'm considering.
LINK
Thanks,
Gerry |
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Topgas
Registered Users
Posts:64
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| 02/27/2008 8:32 PM |
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| Good luck heating your house with solar panels in the winter. I have a 400 gal. six panel (4x10 flat plate) drainback system with NO anti-freeze and you'll be lucky to heat your DHW with that setup. Plenty of btu's if only the sun would come out. 15 days of any sun at all in Dec and only half of those really kick butt. I've kept records.......570,000 btu's in Dec., 1,600,000 in August. Don't be fooled by the ratings on the panels etc., these are all marketing pipe dreams. Love my system, would do it all over again but you can't heat dog house with. Last Sat. was a 100K day, nice. |
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deneb
Registered Users
Posts:7
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| 03/27/2008 12:07 AM |
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Harv,
Go to http://www.nesea.org and check their yellow pages. NESEA is located in Greenfield Mass. and there are quite a few solar people around there. (University towns etc.) You might even become a member and get the discount on all the books and other publications. On their web site they have much - much more. each Spring they hold a conference in Boston that is a "must go" affair. A listing of all the exhibits with their links is also on the web site.
Keep in mind that the heatflow in and out of a building is an equation and at the end of the year it is balanced. Heat lost must be placed in the building to keep equilibrium. (Assuming constant indoor temps.) Conservation of heat in the building is the goal and blower door tests and infrared scans just indicate how close you came.
If a 4-bay workshop, consider a second overhead door with all windows in it. Lower the outer insulated door for security, night and cloudy days and open it for the passive input. Open both to get the wagon and horse outside!
After you have calculated the losses of the building, per day, then you can determine the total internal heated mass you need to span the desired days of no sun. In western Mass. I would guess that 5 days is maximum you could achieve without spending a Kings ransom. You will probably need 1,000 gallons of storage or more water in addition so that the slab will stay constant temp. Recall, if you take heat out - temperature degrades except with phase change substances as part of storage.
Keep your living area really small, 1,200 or less, and use other unheated areas/volumes to store your stuff.
Windows are now up to R=15+ Recently Amory Lovins retrofitted Rocky Mt. Institute home with Alpen.com windows.
Don't know why except I guess he plans on planting more banana trees. (He has had 4 years now of bananas at 6,000 ft. elevation in Colorado.) Also http://www.passiv.de
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djschrall
Registered Users
Posts:25
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| 03/27/2008 12:32 AM |
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Harv,
As you have quickly figured out, it isn't so much "how far north" rather, "What percentage of sunny hours" that makes the difference. I am in Northeast Wyoming, a similar latitude to you, but with 50-60% sunny days in the heating season, all solar applications are much more rewarding. elevation above sea level is also a very important factor, since there is much less dense atmosphere for the sun to pass through at 5000ft than at 500ft .
My 2 cents...
Dave |
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drewski
Registered Users
Posts:7
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| 06/04/2008 2:40 AM |
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| @ djschrall --- sunny days are what count. Believe it or not the sunniest city in canada is edmonton. way up there next to the oil patch. hows that for irony. the city with the best potential solar energy and noone there can give a rats a$$ because they are next door to one of the worlds largest fossil fuel reservoirs. |
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Sunstruck
Registered Users
Posts:1
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| 09/17/2008 2:46 PM |
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Harv,
Welcome neighbor! Are you from out of state? I live in the north central area of MA. FYI, solar heat, using a forced, hot air solar collector(s) is very workable in MA. I have two mounted flat on the South wall of my Ranch style home. My collectors come on at approx. 9:30am and turn off at 4:00-4:30pm. On clear, bright sunny days, I average 6-7hrs. of free heat of 120 degrees F. with my forced air units. One heats my Den area of 8' X 10', and the larger unit heats my 16' X 30' Living room and the adjacent Kitchen. At this moment, my collectors are heating the entire house. I have had the smaller unit since 1985 and the larger unit since 1998. So far, the only maintenance involved was replacing the protective glazing on the exterior of the smaller unit. |
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slenzen
Registered Users
Posts:155
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| 09/18/2008 11:14 AM |
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| I will be building in Mound, MN. South facing lot. Zip 55364. Is there a site that gives solar information for the solar potential? |
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senecarr
Registered Users
Posts:99
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| 09/25/2008 4:50 PM |
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I see no one answered your geothermal part.
There's a whole forum here on it, and if you post there, you'll probably get at least 3 guys giving you contacts that will find you a local contractor.
The short is - geothermal is POSSIBLE anywhere on Earth, even the artic circle. MA is perfectly capable. I myself am in MI, a climate about as cold and am just about to have my system installed. |
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