Farmboy
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| 02/29/2008 12:22 AM |
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Planning a single storey house to be on a slab on grade and we'll start the spread footings (341LF, avg 24"W x 14"H) in a couple months. ICF stem walls 16" below grade and starting on top of footings. We'll be doing them DIY with a bit of pro supervision. As mentioned many times on this forum, a level foundation is critical and we feel it may be better to do the ftgs in 2 to 3 phases to ensure we can create the desired level footing. Another factor is weather as we approach the wettest part of the year and want to minimize open excavations. With limited manpower would it be ok to do logical sections of footings in phases, i.e., cold vertical joints with rebar to tie the sections together?? Strength issues? |
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Chris Johnson
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| 02/29/2008 1:11 AM |
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You could phase your footings, but your costs are going to skyrocket, you have mobilization each time you start and finish the section of footings, underload charges, etc. 341 l/f is not a lot of footing, a competent crew can build and pour that in a day. Your engineer may want to review the cold joints depending on your area/building department/soils report, etc. Even with limited manpower a day to build, pour the next. If you are worried about muddy feet, get some gravel in there as soon as possible it will prevent mud from being pulled and dragged around and actually helps stabilize the areas being walked on. You are talking about 30 yards of concrete. Realize when you do your walls you don't have this option or luxury they need to be poured monolithically from footing to top of wall per floor.
I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I just hope you know what you are getting into and want to help. If you are worried about trying to complete 30 yds on a footing you could be in for a surprise with the walls assuming you are doing this yourself.
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Chris Johnson - Pro ICF
Napa, CA
Come for the wine, Stay for the ICF work |
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dmaceld
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| 02/29/2008 9:18 AM |
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Farmboy,
After watching and working with my concrete guy setting up footings, I'm glad I hired it done. Knowing what you're doing is worth a lot as well as having the proper materials. His forms are mostly 2' x 8' oiled 1 1/4" thick high quality plywood. Not something you want go and buy for a one time job! Plus steel stakes and form clips. There ain't no way wood 2 x 4 or 1 x 2 stakes could be driven into the soil I'm building on!
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind his, and my builder consultant's, knowledge of required soil conditions has prevented very expensive mistakes I possibly would have made.
Hire the footings done!
I considered using Fastfoot, and he looked at the info about them, but I plan to insulate the inner sides of the footings and didn't want to deal with a non uniformly smooth footing side.
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Building house - what a way to spend retirement! |
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Farmboy
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| 02/29/2008 12:43 PM |
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| Thanks for the inputs. I'm meeting with a structural engr next wk. Will discuss cold jnts. Would prefer to do all at once. Have volunteered to help construct several ICF homes in Greensburg, KS, starting 9 March, as part of a project organized by a church group with adult supervision. Perhaps this will help me to see the light, construction wise, regarding the level of effort for footings/foundations. Note 5-7 homes to be constructed with ICFs replacing stick homes leveled by last year's tornado. I'll provide some feedback of our experience there. Dave |
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Cattail Bill
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| 03/01/2008 9:05 AM |
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Farmboy we do things a little different here!
We use form a drain and pour our footing and floor at the same time. Now I realize some will say that won't work as you do not have the slab to hold the wall from moving with the back fill push. The reality is that you do not have it even if you pour the floor after the wall is poured, as there is usually 2" or more of foam between the floor slab and the wall, and the foam will compress if there is movement.
Therefore you are totally dependent on your rebar to hold the wall from the back fill push so we do an extra good job in that location.
Once the floor and the footing are done we build off of the floor no mud, it can rain at 10:00 and we are back to work by 10:15.
This method makes it more important to pay attention to sealing the wall at the floor to wall joint before you waterproof but is very easily accomplished. |
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irnivek
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| 03/01/2008 9:28 AM |
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Depending on your job parameters, we often encourage a diy to use the pump truck on large footer pours.
1/No additional excavation work is neccessarry to get the concrete trucks close to the excavation
2/The DIY gets to know the pump operator and become familiar with the process, footers become a dry run for the walls, go through the equipment they will bring on wall pour day.
3/Lengthy footer pour bending over screeding can be exhausting after a day/week of pounding stakes and carrying form boards through the dirt. Save your energy pouring to properly place dowels, strip the forms within hours if you add 1% calcium, and get your weeping tile in immediately so you aren't shovelling cave in areas later.....
4/Save your "free labor" friends and family for later.
With "limited manpower" as you put it, I encourage you to work smarter not always harder, sometimes it costs a few bucks but if you are doing the work yourself and completing it properly the first time not redoing things, you will have plenty of equity in your home at the end either way...
Just a thought, I know you Iowa farmboys are tough, one of you broke my nose in college... |
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Farmboy
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| 03/01/2008 11:29 AM |
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Excellent inputs all around. I agree a pumper makes the pour easier. Have considered monolithic pour, but the slab will be the finish floor and don't want to beat it up during wall installation. So will pour floors after walls are up.
By the way Ineviak, we're in Kansas and we're tougher than those Iowanians!! lol
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ECO-HAMMER
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| 03/01/2008 1:44 PM |
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| We have a partial basement on our house. We excavated the entire basement to the bottom of the footing then formed and poured. We have two days stacking block and are almost up to our first floor level. After we backfill against the basement we'll be able to start our on grade footings. |
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Farmboy
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| 03/01/2008 2:33 PM |
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| After viewing your photos, I almost feel like I'm whining about a surface mounted slab and some 30" deep footings. Heck, you dug halfway to China! But I do see similarities in that I'll be stacking on top of the footing and bracing without a slab floor in place. Any problems bracing the bracing? |
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enermizermuskoka
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| 03/03/2008 8:39 AM |
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Farmboy- I'm from Canada eh' and just trying to help with my 2 cents worth of advise...
This is my 26th year of working with concrete & steel, and now in my 11th year with ICF's.
For too many reasons to list, I personally would never pour any footings in stages- pour them in 1 shot. This is an area of construction that should never be compromised. Hire a pro that can do this for you properly, and then "have at it with the with the walls." Most "pro's" will utilize a boom pump to pour- and as stated above- it would be an exellent way of getting some hands on training for the wall pour. Cold joints are no place for occuring in the footings, where as a cold joint occurs in the walls at every story as you go up. Again- just my opinion...
ECO-HAMMER- great photo's and good choice of block. Nice and fat footings- but where is the key way?
All the best to ya'all.
Take care,
C.Kerr
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Farmboy
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| 03/03/2008 6:10 PM |
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Thanks enermizer... for your 2 cents (Canadian or U.S.?). What's the best way you've found to create a keyway?
I've decided to use a pumper and do entire footing at one time. A friend who is in big-time commercial construction will assist with one of his crews. Advice provided by all was consistent and welcome. Dave |
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ECO-HAMMER
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| 03/04/2008 12:45 AM |
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Farmboy,
The basement was there with the original house that we tore down, we didn't dig that much. At first we staked the bracing to the ground, it moved around too much due to the amount of gravel between the footings. Today we leveled the gravel and wedged 2x12 formboards across the footings and staked them to the ground with opposing 3' form stakes, now it's very secure.
The keys are in, you just can't see them in the wet mud. We pulled them the next day. |
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enermizermuskoka
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| 03/06/2008 10:55 AM |
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Farmboy- Haven't checked the bank rates yet today, so I am not sure if it's my 2 to your 3; OR if it is my 2.75 to your 2.
However, I just returned from the Riviara Maya where both were at par...
Eco-Hammer- Nice job, very nice- "And that's the way you do it..."
Take care All,
C.Kerr
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