molder101
Registered Users
Posts:6
 |
| 04/24/2008 2:27 PM |
|
I am hoping to begin building just before the end of the summer and my research has brought me to SIP for the walls but I am also concerned with the roof. Overall, I could build with superior walls (not SIP) but then I have to do a stick built or metal roof and I would prefer to not have to.
I am looking for efficiency but at the same time speed of construction is important. I don't mind paying a little more if I can have something up in a week as compared to a month stickbuilt. The video I saw here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN8mvhzX9No, seems to represent an awesome product but I have not been able to find information on it anywhere. Does anyone know of a product that works similar?
I am wondering what, in the opinion of the forum members is the best way to go concerning the walls and roof. My plans are for a 1300 sq ft two story modern home in NJ. The second story is only a loft with a footprint of about 15x30 (approx half of the main floor).
Any help/recommendations are tremedously appreciated!
mike |
|
|
|
|
|
|
cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:804
|
| 04/24/2008 2:54 PM |
|
Mike
was not impressed with video, I counted 9 workers (blue coats/yellow hard hat) with 3 supervisors (grey coats/red hat) and 1 crane operator .
It was like ants building a mound
a sips house does not require that kind of manpower
|
|
Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
|
|
molder101
Registered Users
Posts:6
|
| 04/24/2008 3:05 PM |
|
Hey Chris,
Thanks for the response. The simple reason I was impressed is because start to finish the house was up in 3 hours - walls and roof. I understand there were quite a few people, but if I could have the house up on Friday so I can start doing interior work on Saturday that is pretty amazing.
Now I could be wrong that that's a benefit, but if there are better ways to do it, that's what I'm looking for. I see it as a strong positive to be able to have something up in one day so I can put in the windows and doors and know it's secure and ready to be completed on the interior.
What's your recommendation as far as the walls and roof are concerned? As I mentioned, it would be nice to be able to have consistency without much extra thought (or engineering).
Thanks again,
mike |
|
|
|
|
seaglade
Registered Users
Posts:29
|
| 04/24/2008 3:58 PM |
|
Mike,
I too was impressed with how well all those people worked together to finish a house in 3 hours.
I am an owner/builder of a SIP cottage, I used ACTech Panels for my walls and roof, creating a vaulted ceiling. I can highly recommend this SIP product.
|
|
|
|
|
molder101
Registered Users
Posts:6
|
| 04/24/2008 4:23 PM |
|
Seaglade,
Do you have a heat exchange in the cottage to compensate for the tight envelope? Also, do you have radiant in floor heating or just a regular system?
Thanks for your reply! |
|
|
|
|
wes
Registered Users
Posts:372
|
| 04/24/2008 4:44 PM |
|
That many bodies, that small a house, and perfect working conditions. No sweat.
Now show me a real world set, 10 miles from nowhere on a rocky hillside. That would be interesting.
|
|
Wes Shelby
Design Systems Group
Murray KY
wandr@ainweb.net |
|
|
Joe Westfall
Registered Users
Posts:8
|
| 04/24/2008 6:21 PM |
|
molder101:
We are a mfg. that has a R50 roof panel and R32 load-bearing wall assemblies; we might be a good fit for U. contact me if you want to discuss your project. We have reps in rhode island that might be a real benefit to you. |
|
|
|
|
Green1
Registered Users
Posts:11
|
| 04/24/2008 8:59 PM |
|
| I believe It was a tad over kill on the amount of people,It does not take that many people for us that build SIP houses every day..BUT what an excellent teaching aid for the masses to educate on SIP construction,we need more of them ,been thinking of putting some educational stuff on green building on U tube,since I teach it for free now..And an answer to the first question,USE SIPS FOR ALL YOUR STRUCTURE,you can not go wrong..........My 2 cents worth....Ralph Locke..www.Flagreenbuilder.com |
|
|
|
|
Dick Mills
Registered Users
Posts:124
|
| 04/24/2008 9:16 PM |
|
Molder101,
What R-Values do those light-weight concrete panels offer?
It looks like they have a foamed concrete core (for insulation) with cement interior and exterior skins and rigid metal structure. The foamed concrete has similar compressive strength to foams, but I would guess that the metal skeleton is required to offer flexural strength.
Dick Mills |
|
|
|
|
molder101
Registered Users
Posts:6
|
| 04/24/2008 9:52 PM |
|
Thanks to all for their comments. The thing that caught me on the video was less about the amount of people and more about the speed with which the dwelling was erected. For me, in NJ, the land is pretty flat so I believe that video is representative of what I can expect.
Joe: Your website looks very interesting. We may be able to work together. I am curious as to pricing versus conventional stick built and time to construct. I look forward to talking with you soon!
Ralph: I have to agree with you. All the talk about SIP is fantastic and we all know the benefits but we have to bring it down to the "normal" person who is building. That video did wonders for me. It all but convinced me that building a home in a very short period of time is even more possible than I thought and I'm not talking about using 250 people like Extreme Makeover. Thanks for the link.
Dick: Unfortunately I have no idea what the R-values for the example house is. What I can say is I would like to know who the video is promoting. I emailed the individual who uploaded it but he has not responded. From what I can tell the walls are imported from Japan or China by a company called Standard Quality Corp. Unfortunately I have not been able to track down any information on the importer. I will say that from the information they provided they sound to be amazing. The fact that they can be used for firewalls, because of their fire resistance qualities and the fact that they can be paint finished on the interior without sheetrock is awesome. Add to that the fact that its weatherproof once it's up and once doors and windows are in you're good to go on the interior is in a word: awesome. The only problem is I don't know where I can get anymore information on them.
|
|
|
|
|
NWP
Registered Users
Posts:53
|
| 04/25/2008 7:21 AM |
|
Hello,
I haven't watched the video yet but will later. I see from the post that these are cement, one of my experiences with concrete is the amount of mass that you still have to heat. as an ICF guy explained to me and most people know is that concrete is only going to get as warm as it get by the end of August. Meaning that it will reach its highest temp by the end of august and from the point will start to cool.
for a simply home my lcrew put up the last house they did in about 7 days couting interior walls to suppor the second floor. the wallls were up in two day and the roof was up in two days this also included setting the ridge beam and post needed to suppor the roof. I have a builder in NJ that i work with, what part are you in?
Ralph Lord
New World Panels, LLC
603-209-4857 |
|
|
|
|
cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:804
|
| 04/25/2008 7:32 AM |
|
| If the panels are coming from China they are not "green" either |
|
Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
|
|
molder101
Registered Users
Posts:6
|
| 04/25/2008 10:51 AM |
|
Ralph: From what I can see of these walls and what the video states it's some sort of composite similar to SIPs. It looks like it has a (light) metal skeleton overlaid with a concrete composite. So it's not like LogixICF or other forms of ICF that you pour concrete into the forms and let it set up. I am in South Jersey; about 25 miles northwest of Atlantic City (just outside of Vineland, NJ). What is the name of the builder you work with?
Chris: Great point to note about the walls not being green, however, it's important to notice that the US tends to be last in most environmental subjects and even on technology sometimes (other than weapons). Many countries have been building green for many, many years and using concepts of solar, hydro, and geothermal. I would like to reserve my opinion on their greenness until I know about them. I will say that there is a greater chance of them containing for formaldehyde than perhaps of products built in the US.
|
|
|
|
|
cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:804
|
| 04/25/2008 11:00 AM |
|
Posted By molder101 on 04/25/2008 10:51 AM
. I would like to reserve my opinion on their greenness until I know about them. I will say that there is a greater chance of them containing for formaldehyde than perhaps of products built in the US.
Molder;
You missed the point, If it needs to be transported across the ocean, it is consuming too much energy just to get it here. In most cases to be consdered a "green" envelope it should be manufactured within 500 miles of the project.
The possibility off gassing is another subject, but based on how much the Chinese care about our health, it may contain lead as well?
|
|
Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
|
|
Matt Phelps
Registered Users
Posts:26
|
| 04/25/2008 11:24 AM |
|
| This is a very intresting discussion and I would like to add a couple of points. Lead does not voliltize at ambient temperature and will not "off gas", or at least not in a habitable environment. The issue of 500 miles from the point of orgion actual comes from the LEED program and it is not a requirment; however, if you are building to the LEED protocol you can get points for using building materials that have an orgion with in 500 miles; however, the amount of points is small and since the SIP is considered as the building material, the 500 miles pertains to the SIP it's self and not the various materials it is made from. Various other agencies such as NAHB are developing thier own "green building" programs, and many of them also offer "points" for using materials that come < 500 miles from the point of orgion. |
|
|
|
|
cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:804
|
| 04/25/2008 3:16 PM |
|
Matt;
Bottom line............... there is something inherently wrong with buying a building shell from half way around the globe, when the chinese themselves are still using bamboo for scaffold.
|
|
Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
|
|
GeorgiaTom
Registered Users
Posts:130
|
| 04/25/2008 3:19 PM |
|
| Speaking of green, How about soylent green from China? |
|
|
|
|
molder101
Registered Users
Posts:6
|
| 04/25/2008 3:39 PM |
|
Posted By cmkavala on 04/25/2008 3:16 PM
something inherently wrong
You are pretty defensive Chris. We get stuff from foreign countries all the time and often it's a better product than we can get in the US (cars, etc).
There is nothing wrong with purchasing outside of the country. It's all about the product. If it meets my requirements I would have no problem purchasing it foreign. Just because I'm building a house doesn't mean all the pieces have to come from the US. If I was building a car and could only use parts in the US I'd either have a half (or less) built car or the selling price would be much more costly.
The point of this thread is not necessarily to discuss whether or not purchasing from another country is smart, but rather a brain storming session for manufacturers that offer quality products I can use to build my home and roof out of. As far as where they are manufactured, that is less important to me.
So thank you for your comments, but please stay on topic so that I and others that may be interested can get the information I am searching for instead of personal feelings.
mike
|
|
|
|
|
GeorgiaTom
Registered Users
Posts:130
|
| 04/27/2008 3:31 PM |
|
Mike;
These forums are like bible studies you might start out talking about creationism but I can guarantee you'll end up talking about evoution some where along the line |
|
|
|
|
cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:804
|
| 04/27/2008 7:03 PM |
|
Mike;
If you don't think you will get opinions and and personal opinions in this forum then............. you might be in the wrong place.
This is the "GreenBuildingTalk" forum with the emphasis being on "GREEN" I stand by my points that they are no longer "green" if you need to suck massive amounts of oil out of the ground to get them here, I don't care If it's from China or Timbuktu, it is not a matter of quality or performance. It is a matter of good common sense
So in keeping on your topic...... your question was about "upfront and longrun" the longrun also applies to good use of our natural resources - not Mike's natural resources! Ours
So if I can not influence you to buy closer to home, maybe someone else will see the logical decision.
|
|
Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
|
|