fly840
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| 05/16/2008 1:51 PM |
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I am currently building a combo ICF/SIP house. The basement is ICF and the first and attic floor is SIPs. As sometimes happens (maybe always?) we have changed our mind on the roof pitch AFTER installing the SIP gables. The old plan was 8/12 and the new is 4/12. I checked with the manufacturer and they see no problem with stick framing the resulting opening created after building my knee walls.
My question is, on those opening that will now be stick built, is there an economical way to blow foam into the 2X4 voids (do it yourself) or will batts be just as effective?
The roof by the way is 8.5 inch SIP panels, 22 feet by 8 feet.
As an aside for all the do it yourselfers. The roof part of this project has become my "wall" as in 'hitting the wall'. I had ample volunteer help for one weekend to get the first floor walls, attic floor and very large ridge beam in place. This was two days of hard work. I then 'lost' my help and have decided to subcontract the labor to get the panels on the roof. I managed to get one panel up with a come-along, not reccommended, and will now hire a crane and a crew to finish this part of the job.
Thanks for any insullation advise.
Bill |
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blackdogarch
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| 05/16/2008 2:01 PM |
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Is this change because you are putting in dormers for a story and a half look? or are you just trying to increase the ceiling height on the 1st floor? 4:12 looks pretty boring. Maybe keep the 8:12 gables and frame in dormers for the height you want and a better, traditional look. For insulation, using fiberglass batt would short circuit all the effort you are putting into this by using SIPS. Spray foam or desepack blow in cellulose or similar is what you want. The spray foam is available in DIY packs now. If youhave to use batts, use rigid insulation sheets on the exterior to reduce the thermal circuit of the studs.
Have you thought this all the way through, with drawings, windows sizes, the effects on other parts of the design? Keep in mind the egress window sizes may surporise you in the bedrooms. |
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fly840
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| 05/16/2008 2:09 PM |
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It's a lake house and we are excepting the bungalow look for more room in the attic. The attic will become the master bedroom. We use to have dormers in the design, well, they are on site but have opted for the more room design. Having one panel up has given us a sneak preview and it doesn't look all that bad. It now has a longer overhang and again, numerous neighbors have complemented the look. I will also have to frame in the holes that were going to be the dormers. In addition to the extra room, another benefit is that I can do the roofing now. I would not have tried it with an 8 pitch.
So, I will plan on blowing in foam to all voids created by this change. I was just curious if there was a simpler way. I have been looking at the Tigerfoam system and others.
Maybe I can produce one or two really energy dog houses with my leftover dormer material!!!
Bill |
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blackdogarch
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| 05/16/2008 2:16 PM |
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Ok. Actually, in a Craftsman style house, a shallow pitch works well, especially if the roof overhangs significantly. And with the foam, that is the simpler way. Done quickly, to great effect, with less futzing around. The extra sips will be your guest bedroom someday.
As a suggestion, put a decorative band about 8" wide (watertable) at the top of the first floor, to separate the stories and give some visual differentiation, and consider changing the exposure on the siding from the top to the bottom. IE, 7" exposure on the bottom up to the band, then 4" above the band. Good for visual variety and reducing the slab effect of a tall wall. Something like Hardi-plank will last forever and nails up well. |
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fly840
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| 05/16/2008 2:38 PM |
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blackdogarch,
Thank you very much for the suggestion. We were wondering about that. I was thinking Hardiplank horizontal 5 inch to the weather to the band and then maybe Hardiplank shingle siding above. What material would you recommend for the band? Again, thanks for the suggestion.
Bill |
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blackdogarch
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| 05/16/2008 2:42 PM |
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Your ideas are good, with the shingle look above the band. The 5" exposure is very tight for weather resistance. Make sure you follow the directions for faulking or buding bpaper behind the joints. Also, use 30# felt or tyvek behind for water resistance.
For the band, I use AZEK pvc trim, or white stained wood, or Hardie is now making trim. Aluminum clad is also simple, over plywood, and can be used for flashing as well (from the shingles to the band). |
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fly840
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| 05/16/2008 2:45 PM |
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Thanks again Blackdogarch,
Planning on using Tyvek and thanks for the trim tips. The band idea is great and we plan on utilizing that.
Bill |
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ReadyToRetire
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| 05/16/2008 3:10 PM |
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Fly,
Could you keep the roof lines as is and add a fairly large shed dormer?
Larry
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blackdogarch
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| 05/16/2008 3:36 PM |
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Yes. That was my point in the first place. Think of all the older homes in smaller neighborhoods with a large dormer for the 2nd floor. Now do it nicer. Come in about 16" or so from the gable ends and build a knee wall on the main roof (or from the floor if you want to close it in inside) (or directly up from the gable walls if you use a deep overhang on the gable ends)and raise the side wall up to whatever gives you the 4 pitch. Or decide on a desired window head and get the dormer pitch that way. Remember roof shingles need a minimum 3 pitch (check with manufacturers about your area). We often use Ice and Wtaershile over the whole dormer, but I recently heard Foard Panels express some misgivings about that, so check with your supplier. At a minimum use 2 layers of 30# felt. It is more breathable than the Ice and Water shield.
Which lake?
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cmkavala
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| 05/16/2008 3:38 PM |
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Fly840;
are those headers over the large gable end openings ? |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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ReadyToRetire
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| 05/16/2008 3:54 PM |
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I am NOT experienced with SIPs and have little construction experience, so this is merely a question, *not* an assertion:
If I am reading the picture right, it looks like one side of the beam pocket is at the joint between two panels (it looks like there is a vertical shadowline there). If so, is that common practice?
Larry
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blackdogarch
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| 05/16/2008 4:00 PM |
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| You need a post below a beam, so it will be set between the panels. |
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trigem1
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| 05/16/2008 6:40 PM |
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This is just a suggestion. To get all the benifits of a SIP house, you might contact your SIP people, inform them of your design changes, and ask them to make up a SIP package to complete your house. If you have dormer walls you are going to throw away, maybe you can make these into your knee walls. Again, contact your SIP people and see if they have any ideas. Remember that a properly built SIP house can qualify you for a $2000 tax credit.
Steve
GrandCountySIPs.com |
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fly840
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| 05/16/2008 6:48 PM |
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Those are headers, beefy ones at that, and will now be used as headers for doors, as opposed to windows. These pics are current as of two weeks ago, I now have a deck outside those two openings. I love the pics of the shed dormers and that is a great idea. I am probably past that at this point. I was hoping to use the existing dormer material to maybe make some kind of dormer in the 4/12 roof. Not so sure that would be so easy. I am definitely an amateur and will learn much from my many mistakes for the next one.......righhhhhhhhhht, there will be no next one:)
I really appreciate the input from you all on this forum. I have used and will use in the future your suggestions.
Thanks,
Oh, the lake is Lake Wedowee in Wedowee Alabama and I'm finally starting to pronounce it right for dang Yankee:)
Bill |
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cmkavala
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cmkavala
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| 05/16/2008 6:56 PM |
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Bill;
Normally no header is required for a non- load bering wall especially with SIP construction? Why the overkill? |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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Alton
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| 05/16/2008 9:23 PM |
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Bill,
I wish I had known that you were building that close to me. I live in Auburn, Alabama and could have donated some time working with the SIPS. Maybe in the future, other posters will mention where they will be building when they ask for help. |
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Alton C. Keown
Residential Designer and Construction Technology Consultant
Auburn, Alabama
334 329-0957 AT&T Cellular |
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blackdogarch
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| 05/16/2008 10:16 PM |
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I like trigem1's idea of rewowrking things with your SIPS suppliers, but if it is not feasible for whatever reason, just stick build and spary foam or do exterior insulating sheathing per above, for similar results (2x6). Up north (PA) we are sometimes spray foaming 1" for the coverage and sealing, then batt for the rest. R-21+ walls. Which for Alabama is more than enough, I would think.
You will get the room you want, good thermal results, solid construction that you can DIY and a great place to watch the sunset. You do realize that how that we know where you are, we will all be down to visit. Will you be ready by July 4? Beer and dogs on us. |
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cmkavala
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| 05/17/2008 7:47 AM |
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I wish I had known that you were building that close to me. We are shipping a Steel SIPs package on Monday to a DIY in Fort Valley, Georgia
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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fly840
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| 05/17/2008 9:35 AM |
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Good question on the header Chris, that was advice from the SIP company.
Blackdogarch, the deck will be big enough for lots of dogs (the edible kind) and ample adult beverages:)
Bill |
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